Speaker 2: Welcome everybody to this. I don't know if this a special but it's a new format. We're doing here once in a while that we're calling EYC after hours after hours on Brennan Still Still Here Troy still here to we decided that we're going to have a few episodes where it's just the two of us talking about different topics related to engineering a career Sharon. Some of our experiences is in a little smaller than the more casual format than our normal normal interviews are

Speaker 1: so I think it's been able to bring up themes. I would say that I have been things that I think Brandon I was wanting to expand upon or even in this or that other random things will probably bring in the conversation but I think this will allow us an opportunity to kind of talk a little bit more about something you know, where we have someone on the show. We want to get as much out of them in the short time that we have them until we try to let them talk soon as possible. But sometimes there's things that maybe we feel like we could expand to find that would help it so we're going to We use this to do that. We'll see what it becomes

Speaker 2: condensing that into some are thoughts. So today we're going to talk about the pros cons. Howdy-do. It benefits drawbacks of getting a master's degree in engineering

Speaker 1: sadly. No one calls you master when you complete it. That's the biggest. That's kind of her one. You should I got through mine and I was like a why is no one calling me master

Speaker 2: tray. Turn. You had to go back to get a PhD so it was to get official

Speaker 1: title for the doctor, but not the Masters think about it doesn't make sense,

Speaker 2: but you can

Speaker 1: go back. There's nothing stopping you

Speaker 2: get a second and I'll be double master. Still want to still call me

Speaker 1: master from now on on the show. Double

Speaker 2: master. So, I guess there's not necessarily ton of diversity in this conversation is broke, but I think we did do it for different reasons though.

Speaker 1: I don't say what we did while we were doing at Masters was quite a bit different. I mean, we definitely didn't go down the same path of mechanical engineering and so yeah, I guess maybe maybe we should surely reflecting on why we wanted to get The Masters so don't know if you want to start.

Speaker 2: My my Master's Degree was kind of special programs Ohio Masters in mechanical engineering but the program I did actually with combined with going to the Peace Corps at the same time. So mine was a little less traditional it involved a year, of course work and then I was actually living abroad for 2 years kind of doing Masters research while the time do any other duties in the Peace Corps and Agriculture and working on projects that I kind of fit into that vein. And how does mechanical engineering fit into agriculture in the developing World contact? So I did a lot of field work during my time and then came back to university on campus and was there for maybe another semester to riding up doing a report in defending kind of like you would traditionally but mine was much more multi-disciplinary. So I took classes what else is social science? Classes and got that all combined into one one package and I did that cuz it was something I was interested in. I was interested in going abroad doing some different type of work getting a different experience and that I don't know if it's necessarily stay at the expense of deeper technical knowledge, but it was wider breaths than deeper. So I covered a little bit wider range and all this as opposed to going deep into one subject, which is kind of the opposite of what you did.

Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. So I mean my the reason I got my Master's is I wanted technical knowledge in noise and vibrations. Like I wanted to expand upon that I knew after undergrad that I was lacking a lot and I knew the Masters would get me there. And so yeah, I spent all as much time as I possibly could taking classes and doing work very directly related to technical noise and vibration engineering and so that was I even like all my extra classes like what I took a math class like I do I took a numeric class because I want to understand copy paste. Related to like IPA. It seems like related remodeling like it's in there was an accident but even more related to my generation than that, but I think Yeah, there is there is there's that definitely that aspect of the master's degree of like I want to have more technical now. I think this is the bigger point of the scene that we keep seeing in the show is when you get a masters have it as a tool to achieve what you want to do and know that when you start until for me, I wanted the tool to be more technical knowledge and I think for you it was all so technical. But it wasn't just that it was also a broader life experience. Great to in this one one definite way to do that. And so I think it's just it's interesting to see, the difference is but ultimately ending up with the same piece of paper, but it's still it's still different right? I mean, it's still like Yeah, it's so different.

Speaker 2: Yeah. No, I I definitely agree and I think aside from wanting to get like a different experience what I want to do. Like I also want to just go beyond what you cover in undergrads when you get a bachelor's degree. It's fairly laid out for you in terms of the classes. You have to take to get some electives and this and that but when you go into getting a master's degree, you can kind of you can open up your horizons a little bit cuz there's different ways of getting one I think universities sometimes do it differently, but you can go in knowing like what you want to do and go really deep in the topic. Do you do at least it's optional report option which kind of different amounts of course work and research weather somewhat you're going like a course we're going me. Where is hey, I learned some things and undergrad but I really want to give you go deeper into some topics or cover a broader range cuz you don't like you only so much time to learn than undergrad in your only in that mindset for so long. Where is when you're in the Masters. It's definitely different. You can definitely focused on one thing.

Speaker 1: Is different path it is driven most universities that mean to simplify it but there's an all coursework where you going to take a bunch of different classes 30 credit ish or 10 ish classes finish. I can be right. Yeah 9 credits a semester 3 p.m. About 30 credits and then there's also the classes + research Aztec were you taking research credit? Sometimes they have like a report option like we did with a thesis option which he says he's just using a little bit more research then the report option but they essentially goes down to how much you want to tell her to like I got me some buy things like I wanted to be as technical as possible and focus in a possible. So he's a vibration or Michigan Tech and The Graduate level really only has so many classes in North my break and not enough to give me 30 credits of it until I went with the resources adopted because then I could take all of the classes related. I took a topic but that also do more in research of that topic today. Try Joe's to go down that route where I think for others, you know, if you try to be more broad, maybe the coursework option is better really kind of pain than what you want to do. But there are those two paths.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one thing that's important to consider is like we did ours right after undergrad. I guess you technically got an MBA right after undergrad and then went and got your technical engineering Master's I did my right after undergrad but there are a lot of people who don't do that and going back to get your Master's during your career when you started your career and you're in it, I don't have any personal story, but I see a lot of people around me that do do that and I think that can be a very different type of situation because you're not always you're doing it part-time while you're going are you still working? You don't necessarily Focus living on campus like you would be if you just continue after undergrad and so it is a little different. I think it's sometimes the motivation can be a little different for people. Where is we went to learn a lot and to get different experiences. I think it can kind of be a like the focus on improving your career or getting a raise or something along those lines. I'd be interested talk to someone I guess. We we have talked to it. We talked to Caitlin who got her Master's well, well little time of her career. It's kind of switch careers a little bit and paths will talk some other people, but that's definitely a whole different set of conditions to consider. There is when you're working full-time and going back

Speaker 1: a degree related to that like while working the other thing to consider is how How much are internally motivated are you going to be if you try to do like the research option so like the last three years I try to work on my PhD from a distance and it was incredibly hard because you set up your own milestones and it's a lot different like when you if you're let's say you going to go part-time and to get to get your Master's you going to do classes. You can have weekly assignments that are going to kind of push you into a long but if you do largely research, it's like well if you don't set up goals that can be hard to be motivating cuz you don't have team members and courts projects and stuff. So just like I guess my point here is that the research option is going to be a lot harder I think to do when you're working because it's a lot harder to get that motivation to actually keep chunking away at it until I think that's another reason why people probably look at coursework options for their masters when they're working.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Yeah, that's definitely true. I like something else to consider is that if you are planning on getting your master's paid for by your employer your options may be limited. They may have special programs set up with certain universities. So if you're expecting to be like be able to go to MIT online and get a degree from this how we not going to happen depending on who you're working for in Denver that that the country they may have specific gear is a specific seen the master's program at this University that you go to a will pay for or if you want to go out on your own either. We're going to give you less money for that. Are you going to pay for it on your own? So if there's a specific technical area you want to learn that may not always be an option to being paid for by your company that isn't so you can't pay for it on your own but you may lose that opportunity

Speaker 1: even even the idea of likely I work in example manufacturing, but I want to tip it and I want to get a masters in fluids. Well, if the description of your company says it has two Can you enhance your work they may not say a masters in fluids. Whatever is going to do it so they won't pay for it. So you really got to read it even things like how long you have to stay at the company and let it so you don't have to pay it back. So there's there's a good reading to be done in documentation on what exactly they mean by covering your tuition and what you're actually signing up for their and whether or not that makes sense. That's just another decision that you're going to have to make, you know, whether or not it's worth it to you to do it. But yeah, each company is different for sure.

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: related to finding we should probably talk about the idea of if you're going to go full-time all you can get it funded. So for me, I I funded mostly by teaching. I'm so I if you talk to your department the mechanical engineering department or whatever engineering department. They have so many teaching assistantships every semester for the Legend all the teachers at each the labs and stuff and so if you teach a lab typically you get all of your tuition covered as well as a small stipend, it's probably quite so less than 30,000 a year, but it's enough to pay for cheap apartment in past food. I'm going to break even money which is fine. You know, you don't even remember there's is opportunity cost of getting a master's write like you're not going to make 60 70 80 thousand a year as a full-time engineer. So you give up that money while you're getting your degree as an opportunity cost, but you can go and if you can get a teaching assistantship or something like that, you can probably break it break even meaning you're not going to pay anything which is pretty much what I end up happening for me. So that's that's through teaching that you sent to the same idea after research where you get on a research project either sponsored by industry or sponsored by the government like NSF National Science Foundation, something like that where you can send you that work on that research project and Get paid there are some things like going to think like that award National Science Foundation by grants. I guess. Yeah, let's talk about how you got yours.

Speaker 2: Mine. Mine was founded to the National Science Foundation. So when you're looking to apply for grad school, you can also apply for certain fellowships along the way usually from government organization. So there's National Science Foundation Department of Defense NASA National Institute the house there's a bunch of them for wide wide range of Majors. Not necessary just engineering a lot of those what they allow you to do is if you have a project in mind what you want to do your research on you can apply to these fellowships and it's it's really not necessarily huge complex process mine was a time. I don't know if it's changed but it was like three essays that were two pages each plus like, you know your background of your technical now, it's what you've done.

Speaker 1: Yo end up being a zombie-like newbie was when he was filling out his Fellowship applications. We lived with each other at the same time. Of time where Brennan didn't get much sleep.

Speaker 2: I got to

Speaker 1: thinking what you're saying is like the fellowship out. You can pick your topic which is pretty cool which is different than the research option. You're going to be told what project you're going to work on. It may still be in the area if you're interested in seeing me not care, but it won't be exactly what you're thinking this early

Speaker 2: maybe even pivot if something doesn't work out, because some of the requirements for them or a little bit looser and turns it as long as you're working on a project that meet certain criteria you can keep doing that but they're also going to pay for your tuition and they're also going to give you a stipend on top of that. So you will be making you'll you'll have your expenses covered you basically I got through my Master's Degree total of like four years or whatever it was. Long and I didn't pay anything except for like some student fees or something, but I basically sitting on the site. But anyway, that's a really good way to go. If you are really passionate about something and especially if you think it can make I don't necessarily say like make a difference but a lot of these things are looking at like meeting criteria of how will this affect people how will make a positive impact? Those are all my tears are looking at in somebody's

Speaker 1: fellowships. And then there's the obvious way funding of you just pay for yourself. And I think that that's still a legitimate option. Like I don't I don't know trying to say that that's a bad option to starting with the options of funding, you know, he's just a different calculation. I'm terms of what value are you going to get from it? And are you going to be able to pay that back and I don't necessarily mean monetarily like talked before about this idea. What you can do the number-crunching, right? Okay Masters going to take me two years and I lose out on making $60,000 a year. So it's the opportunity cost of $120,000. I'm going to have to pay $40,000 to get it. So it's going to cost me 125 + 4860 but What know what happens after that? I get I throw a reason we think I can get the job that I like. I'll make another five ten thousand a year. So instead of making 60 in year 3, I would make 65 or 70 in any project that out over a 40-year career making an additional $5,000 every year you can work out the numbers I was way but I would like my recommendation would lean more towards the other way are more towards the emotional side of like are you going to enjoy what you do? Is it going to open up an Avenue for you to enjoy what you do more? If that's the case then and you can swing it and I think I financially like make it make it actually work like you could borrow the money and get to it then it's still a great option.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree. I think they're definitely is that trade-off but knowing that that Financial trade off with annoying at the end and you probably are going to get a salary boost compared to what you would starting as undergrad. I know that happened to me I was able to actually see what bachelor's degree was going to make versus a master's degree and I was getting a decent boost because of that but like you said like the emotional aspect of it and what you're learning like I think a big part of what I got out of getting a master's degree was just a much higher level of critical thinking of how to approach a problem how to go about solving problems identifying issues and certain things that you don't necessarily cover an undergrad they try to teach you but because you're trying to do so much and so many different areas, you don't have to get a time to like focus and think about it where as in in grad school. You're a lot more autonomous. My ways are you a lot more freedom to solve things? And I know I think I think you also just in general are going to maybe more seminars you're opening up your mind more two different opportunities and technical areas or ways of solving problems. And that was a huge benefit to me. I think I've been carrying forward and trying to continue expanding on even though I've been out of school for him for a while now,

Speaker 1: I guess maybe a little clarification are but yeah, I mean that you know undergrad your I forgot we said more free or you have more

Speaker 2: than undergrad you take to

Speaker 1: graduate I would I would agree that I mean it's like one of the best best parts of the Master's Degree was that I was always doing things. I was interested in what the thing I hate about undergrad is like I was constantly having to do things. I really didn't have much interest in but when you go to the Masters, all of your time can be spent on things you're interested like I really Really love grad school like I'm still at rest of this day. But like it's fantastic for me because I love noise and vibration and I can spend all day everyday in it. Like it's hot like undergrad where you have all these other things you have to take like it's all the classes. I took their in my master for things. I was interested in all of my research was on a topic that I was interested in maybe not specifically but in the general area and it's like that's a big difference in her like a big thing. I don't think people realize I called like your undergrad. They're probably, that sounds really hard. I don't know if that's going to be fun. But it's like if it's in a topic you're interested in this a lot of fun because I know eventually you're spending all of your time on something you're interested in there. I think he's just making sure you're doing something in the master that you're interested in and then its just

Speaker 2: oh, yeah. I know I totally agree. It's like getting to work on something. I I wanted to do in passion about made a huge difference. I wasn't stuck it in my case. I didn't really have much interested noise and vibration, so I wasn't stuck. Taking us by as I was I was doing all kinds of different things and also just like getting to explore even using different programs or learning how to code or doing all these things to solve your problems like you would you have a lot more freedom. You got to get to set your own pace and some way there are deadlines and things but it's not it's a little less about there's an assignment due tomorrow and more about knowing three months. I need to have these many more Milestones on my my research project.

Speaker 1: It's still going to be very very heavy like homework assignments exams. Like yeah, it's for my experience watching other people are just in the course reception. It's very very much like undergrad. I was like, okay. I'm just any homework this week. I got these exams paper prepare for I got these projects that I got to work on which is the difference being there. Hopefully all in class is that you're interested if that's the message. Yeah, one of the reasons I really like the research report option of the Masters for me was that it gave me the research credit, which allow me to dive in and do the things like You're talkin about I would have more time to do that. So I guess the little bit of a clarification I guess just make it clear as an example. If you Google search an SAE salary calculator. There's a website you can go to and you can actually look at A bunch of different bacteria and look at the salaries of sa Society of Automotive Engineers like years of experience bachelor's Master's doctorate working for an oem or a tier-1 tier-2 tier-3 working in what region and you can actually look up the mean salary they have with standard deviation until you can use that data to compute how much more money would I make with a master's degree, but that's just for the automotive industry that exists you could actually get access to that data.

Speaker 2: So what What you think about getting her Masters in like what everyone else is doing? I guess what I'm trying to think of if I think of all my co-workers how many of them actually have master's degrees you think sometimes it's easier think like, you know, the Masters is new bachelor's or something to eat, but I don't think that's like sometimes there's division of that but I don't think that's actually the case. I think I guess I don't know section to say speculate but I think less than 50% of my co-workers have master's degrees at this point.

Speaker 1: I would subjectively I think that as well it's definitely not like everyone's getting I mean, I'm trying to think of my old company there was a 89 engineers and I think only three of them had master's degrees including myself maybe for So yeah, like I said, I think it really depends on what you want to do. But I will say like in in my old organization like when there was technical problems it was the people with master's degrees that are often the people that were seen as the go-to people to solve them know some of that I think is bias, right like if you're interested in technical stuff, you probably going to go get a masters anyways, and so that's not to say that you couldn't do that with just a bachelor's take if you're interested in your always learning what you should be even with a bachelor's degree. You can still become very technically strong, but I don't think it's too surprising that like if there's like a hey we have this piece of software and it's asking us this button do we click it or not? Click it? What does it do when we click it like those answers come in the master's degree or in graduate school new Headmaster the pH D. Like if you are using a piece of software and it has a bunch of different buttons to do some analysis. A graduate-level education is going to help you understand exactly what each of those buttons do and what math they use like maybe that to think about it a different

Speaker 2: way. To stay at my work. I don't think of differentiating people between person who has a master's the person who doesn't as being able to solve a problem or not, but that's also we're at we work a different country or different companies in different industries that God had different cultures around that

Speaker 1: time in my work is really really specific. I mean, I was a noise and vibration Consulting Engineers. So right and so yeah, I guess it's a good thing to take into consideration. yeah, so yeah, we talked about finding Taco different types. I guess maybe walk into what we feel like the benefits are now that we actually have them then we got a few years of experience.

Speaker 2: I think the benefits for me and this might go specifically to the program. I did was just having a different view of technical problems as well as think about how that fits within like organization and how people work. My Master's Degree kind of led me to do a lot more reading on Innovation and problem-solving and design in a lot of ways. And so I tend to take a lot of but somebody's sister is a soft skills either but non-technical skills and continue that forward into looking at problems in my area and looking at how I can learn about them how I can apply different methods to my job and two teams of things. And going forward with that because that was that was just the content that I learned in grade school. It wasn't necessarily deep into I I did not take a single class and an engine calibration which is what my day job is so there wasn't like a direct transfer of skills, but there was a direct transfer of process and thinking and problem-solving that I definitely wouldn't have had it if I quit at if I quit right after I'm going forward definitely opened up my mind to solving problems in a different way. That's been the biggest thing. I think that I've seen it also for my career in general like having a master's degree gave me a whole nother thing to talk about in job interviews for project. I worked on and what I learned which you may not need depending on where you're at in your career, but I definitely gives you a whole new on the conversation when you're first getting that job right out of a school of hate your some products that work done here something I went deep on here. Here's what I learned and how I implemented it and I found that to be pretty helpful. Looking to get my job. These are things are very different than what you you found me your

Speaker 1: benefits. Surprisingly similar. I mean, I would agree that one of the biggest takeaways is this understanding of how do you learn better? And like, you know, you have to learn what their problems that are solved already? Like if you're trying to learn a problem if in the textbook the answer to that problem has been known for tens of years like when it gets to the point where it already and it's where it's in a textbook like where someone has researched it to the point where they understand that we're then they write a chapter in a book about it. Like it's years past that because you think about it, like if someone's going to research something to write Journal articles first, and then once the journal articles get you no additional articles related to him and get a sense of substantiated then then it's to the point where it becomes communal knowledge and then they put it in textbook. So it it's a light spell a mean. It's probably well over 10 years from the time that its first found to the point that it's in a text book interview trying to solve problems in a book that they're old problems relatively is it If you're going to try and learn a new things that's a different skill-set than what you learn in undergrad cuz undergrad you learn how to solve problems that have already been solved and that's important like that is an important step in the education process, but it is a different step to learn how to learn something. That's not known right now. Definitely. It takes a lot of different skills to your point about being broad. Typically frozen out is everything so multi-disciplinary. All the problems have been solved like they're their lot like you sing in the single discipline, like if they're not there anymore. It's like all the problems that I'm seeing are all like electrical and mechanical mechanical and chemical. If you have to have a broad multi-disciplinary knowledge to solve them because you have to constantly ask the universe questions and then I eat run experiments him engage those results. And so you have to know how to design experiments to ask the question appropriately and you have to know how to interpret the results in those are skills related to By figuring something new out and I think that that's what I really liked in learning about guys going up the power that he gave me is how do I approach something? I don't know if it's a specimen. I guess what you're saying. I didn't take any class of engine calibration. I now do that full-time because I learned something. I didn't know now engine calibration was known before then. Maybe we could be done with a bachelor's degree in a probably does have a bachelor's degree. But yeah, I guess maybe that's kind of how I frame it in terms of the learning knowledge that I had happened to me at school.

Speaker 2: Yeah. It is awesome to working on things that like no one else is done in your in your grad program to be like there's a problem that maybe maybe people have done similar stuff to it, but they haven't done this exact thing like there is some new knowledge to be gained hear some new analysis be done some new way of looking at a problem and I had and I had a professor in college in a timer for PhD. He's like if you're getting a Ph.D. You basically have to be creating new knowledge that no one has ever liked knowing the Like even those two might be very specialized in that area. You're doing something that no one is done before to add to the body of knowledge. Like a master's degree is is a step below that in that you are working on a project but no one has applied this knowledge to before or you're coming up with a smaller subset of it, but you are still working on something new and it's pretty cool to be like I am doing something new that they know is I'm a born and what looked at this from this way, how am I making impacting what I'm doing in my Master's and I think I was that was definitely cool.

Speaker 1: Yeah, the analogy that I like to give his imagine knowledge is a circle. Okay new standing when you're born you're standing in the middle of the circle. And if you walk North in the circle, you're learning mat. You walk south you learned in history like this idea as you walk out towards the outer edges of the circle you approached more deep knowledge that your first step North is learning to add your seconds up north is learning to multiply and you can get your Master's in mathematics. You can get your PhD in mathematics and when you get your PhD, what you're doing is you're actually extending that Circle a little bit at 1 infinitely small point and you can do that going north. You can do that going east. You can do the Kodiak going south with his idea of like PCS are largely expanding The Circle of Knowledge meaning they're finding new things. In other people are working in the realm of things that are already known. That is the circle now. It's kind of a different way to think about it, but yeah,

Speaker 2: that's actually it's really good while you are yet, you're adding to the body of of now I just out there and You might be you would change it except people who come behind you. They're going to go to where you were at and are going to go even further you like your only adding to it, which is awesome.

Speaker 1: When you get your bachelor's degree, you think you know everything when you get your Master's you start the kind of realize you might not know everything and when you get your PhD realize, you know, nothing because if you're a person that literally has added an infinitely small part of that Circle you realize is a 360 other degrees of that Circle and beyond that no one knows so you like you literally know nothing relatively I give you consider your your praise to the infinitely small in this infinite potential of now and she's literally no zero.

Speaker 2: So

Speaker 1: yeah, she don't know nothing everyone is listening but keep trying

Speaker 2: It comes down to personal preference a lot of ways if you want to get a Masters or not. If you are not excited about getting a master's or the thought of it. I don't know if I would necessarily commit to doing that. It's it's going to be a lot of money and it's not going to be a lot of time and energy.

Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lot of work a little bit but it's clear. He's going to be a ton of work if you have other maybe we made it sound easy. Hopefully we can get that impression. I could still a ton of work, but I think maybe what we're just trying to say is if it's related something you're interested in there. Like where you going to be doing a lot a lot of work in a field you're interested in it'll be a lot more fun than work.

Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot of work, but worthwhile work if you want to do

Speaker 1: even if it's hard work, but it gets you again to that point where you really think you can get the job you want from it, like also something you should be considering. Intel for me having the degree like the benefits that I got this ability to learn something new I really like that cuz I applied at mall my side projects like I love being able to learn but it also has opened up this possibility for me to be a PhD student for me to become like a research engineer in the future. I'm just constantly working on new Innovative things like that. It's essentially open up a career for me that I'm really really interested in you excited about and so I think that's that's the other big benefit that has had for me is it's open up doors opportunities for my career that I'm really excited about.

Speaker 2: Definitely now I totally agree. Sweet,

Speaker 1: I'm in well,

Speaker 2: you got you got anything else that I know. I think I think I've been spared all the knowledge I have for the most part about the

Speaker 1: questions. We didn't talk at all about my Masters in Business, which is fine. Like we're on a safe and Engineering. I've been afraid of people who are interested me talk more about that. It's good. We also have an episode coming out soon Kevin. We're going to talk about a little bit more to so yeah, that's thought that might answer some of your questions to you. If you're wondering about the NBA side of it. I just listened to that Kevin episode, but let us know you can email us. Are you guys on the website or admin at UIC podcast.com? We'd love to engage bdr stock little bit more about what you want to hear. There's other types of people that want to have on the show would love to know.

Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely. Don't forget us up at that email or on Twitter at EYC podcast. You have any questions about Master's Degree or anything else in engineering career? Let us know which an answer. After hours shows and it's any specific topics. You want to hear from us yet. Let us know we're excited to bring you guys what you want to hear. So thanks for listening today. Good talking to you. I'm liking liking this format is going to work out. Well for some Christmas Eve.

Speaker 1: I see after hours to get all of our Revenue if you don't make any money lies with my sweetie, if we did revenue generated with this you'll get clipped and get all sent to ESPN. Iron Man. Talk to you later.

Speaker 2: Thanks for listening this episode of engineer your career with Troy Bauman and Brennan Tamarac for more information about the show visit our website at byc podcast.com there you can find show notes for each episode and get in touch with drawing. I if you or someone, you know are an engineer with an interesting or even not so interesting career journey, I would like to be on the show go on the website send us a short bio and we made it to invite you to come on and share your story. And finally if you want to show your support, please rate review like or subscribe to the show on your podcast player of choice.