Speaker 2: What can I run to the next episode of engineer your career on the show today? We have the extraordinary. Mayhaw, churaya ever since I've known that I've always been impressed with her and I think you will be to access to Healthcare in the US and internationally currently. She's in the domestic space working in marketing and a large biotech where she focuses on developing strategy and executing marketing tactics across the country previously. She working Global Health consultant at Accenture development Partnerships ADP Corporate social Enterprise Consulting expertise to drive Innovation International developments may have passion for making a difference in health care was sparked an undergraduate at the University of Michigan Health internships in India and Honduras working in Health Management for an NGO and volunteering as a student biomechanical engineer at an urban hospital. She recently completed her part-time MBA at UCLA Anderson with a specialization in marketing and is a mom to a toddler and a newborn originally from the Upper Peninsula Michigan today. May I reside with her husband and kids outside of Los Angeles to start things off may have wanted to let everyone know that So with that said Meha welcome

Speaker 3: at UIC.

Speaker 1: Another episode of engineer your career. I'm Brennan Tamarac and as always I'm joined with Troy Bauman Troy

Speaker 2: awesome, man. I feel like a summer's coming from I'm doing really good. How have you been what you been up

Speaker 1: to? It is a Saturday on the weekdays. So I having a weekend recordings. Nice. So yeah, I've just like relax and I'm not rushing to get anything done. Just hanging out ready to get ready to have a awesome conversation today. I'm keeping on keeping busy enough had a lot of early mornings to accommodate for some testing time. So nothing quite like an early morning when I'm getting in a vehicle. I'd like negative 10 Celsius like 1414 Ashford for those in the u.s. System there so early morning to be called but getting you some cool stuff. So that's always nice

Speaker 2: the joys of testing the only get in getting an app where I am, but you also get to do it at 14 degrees.

Speaker 1: Mother day's going to be like a hundred twenty degrees. So, you know you get to do everything he's got to make sure it works. I want to make sure that people's cars work and don't break on them cuz I would be

Speaker 2: yeah, so when you get in your car and it's freezing cold in the morning just know that there is people like Brendan that sat in test Chambers at those that are much colder temperatures just to make sure when your car starts are when you try to start your car that it actually does start.

Speaker 1: Exactly exactly. What about you man PhD you getting along

Speaker 2: dude. I know it's getting close. So I study so I'm to the point now where the study is ready and everyone's who needs to stakeholders have listened to it and everyone's good to execute. So now I got to advertise now. I'm to the point where I got to actually start recruiting people and getting them in and having them go through the jury study. So then I can process the data which actually ties well to Our Guest today, so I may have welcomed. So glad you're here.

Speaker 3: Hey guys. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and I still have that will fit so well, actually, I think she like I'm coming to the point where I now need to Market and I need to put on a different cap as as I approach this part of my my PhD in the knowledge that I need in this next step

Speaker 3: to try to

Speaker 2: get up to speed to where I know you are. Can you maybe give us today?

Speaker 3: I am a marketer. I work at a biotech a rat inside of LA and where I started though. I'd like to say my Origins if you had me worried dancer starred in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan, so bored and raise their my parents both work at Michigan Tech University, and I think you know, what else what we started by medical engineering and undergrad but I think being in a community of an academic Community, right? Small town in ever in some way. So stay with text your friends to their parents work at Tech. You kind of knew that okay, you got to go study and study something so semi-hard right? I think because growing up at text that also everyone assumed I would go there even my parents like yeah, of course, I mean why not but but you guys think about it if you went to school where your parents to bring home the campus every day and you bump into them and ultimately I did went down states to Ann Arbor. I went to University of Michigan and a biomedical engineering and within undergrad those kind of when I had a shift by shift meaning. What is it that I actually want to do with my career. Is it the technical side? Is it a traditional nutritional engineering job or is there something else that's sparking a light in me? And I think the transformational moment came during Summer after my sophomore year and undergrad so I had this opportunity to volunteer abroad on this program called engineering World Health and we went down to Central America for a couple months. So there is a group of students from across the country Alabama engineering undergrads and we went to Costa Rica from month to get trained on how to fix medical equipment or donated medical equipment. And then in the second ones were all placed in different parts of the Central America assigned a different hospitals and the objective was that as volunteer Engineers. We would really be assisting the local medical technician that these hostile how to fix the equipment rental really hands-on experience really exchange of ideas and knowledge and also the same time as brakes. We got exposed to the Spanish language and became fluent in Spanish to Federer but really you guys it was that summer when I realized that I felt most fulfilled when I was engaging in Spanish. Across different Departments of that hospital not just the technical department fixing equipment and trying to understand the other problem at the hospital had and what problems are trying to solve and also figure out is there a way for me as a volunteer engineer to help them or so kind of that problem solving that came through communication through understand the needs of others and the problems didn't work National even related to medical equipment. Right? One of the wards said. Hey, we willing to increase more Public Health Awareness. So could you help us figure out how to get out of going back to the marketing things. Can you help us figure out how to create some marketing messages or or do a skit for women that are in this waiting room and teach them about how to take care of yourself when you're pregnant, right? No smoking eating healthy excetera. So that was very unique for me that I said. Okay, and I first exposure to a developing country hospital yet, you know, they need good. Medical equipment but also other things that would help them with his think after that is when I realized okay, is there a career path that I can take that isn't engineering and ultimately what I decide what I end up doing was going to Consulting. So it luckily for me at the other years. Did Michigan Consulting companies did coming recruit to the engineering school? Right? So I knew that okay. This could be a potential career path and after talking to a few folks and going to the cream process. I thought okay. This could be exciting because here I am using my problem solving and analytical thinking skills that I've gained through my engineering curriculum, but I'm using it in a different way to help companies. Think about the problem then different light that's really appealing to me especially because I realize also in an undergrad to discover yourself that I am an extrovert right? I like to really engage with people. So I started for my what my dream job could be ultimately after graduating from from Michigan with with that degree. IMessage name I start working at a company called Accenture 6th Century or large consulting firm. And the thing is guys. I knew that despite not miss a why do traditional engineering job. I was passionate about health care. So I thought okay if I can go work for a company that's making a difference in the business side of healthcare then then let's see what happens and so it extends Rosary fortunate to work on projects that are all in the healthcare realm on my works for repair company. I work for a hospital and one of the projects has been a lot of time on this is back in 2012 timeframe. He is working with a hospital to implement electronic medical records. Rights to think about the healthcare system today, but especially about 10 years ago things were still everything still on paper. So moving from paper to the computer to making everything elektronik. So being part of that shift in the healthcare system while playing a smaller role differing for one client and an Implement into some there but I felt like I was top part of something bigger as a pair of making a difference in health care in the whole nation by by working on an understanding the process of implementing electronic medical records. So really love that again, this is what my story that's about three years into my career now, so but as I as I mentioned earlier in undergrad I spent that time at Broad and there's still this this fire in me that okay. I'm doing great work in this country. But can I also think about how I can make a difference in healthcare internationally? Soap with in Accenture. There is a corporate social Enterprises small group with an extension call Accenture development Partnerships that actually works for clients that are international all around the world and I was fortunate to be part become part of the global health Team there and I truly attributed to the fact that I went out of my comfort zone in undergrad and spent that the summer abroad after my sophomore year actually asked my junior. Also I spent time working for a nonprofit in rural India. So because I decide to explore what else is out there instead of a traditional internship. I think that really helped shape me and also gave me the opportunity to work on them cool projects just within appears my career when I shave our projects at Accenture was working in Columbia for the world diabetes foundation and Novo Nordisk cafepharma company, and essentially they're running this program on gestational diabetes and they brought Accenture in to assess. Is this program successful is the RR women in these communities getting educated how to take care of themselves when they prevent the occurrence of gestational diabetes. And what is a roll of different stakeholders in a community to make this type of program successful and we made some recommendation. There's a recognition of how to expand its program to other parts of the country other parts of the world really love that experience and fast-forwarding though now because when one thinks about their career, you're fortunate, I think it is certain point that you're able to be single-minded about. Okay. I'm going to figure out what's best for me what fulfills me but after a certain point if you decide to get married or decide to start a family right then you have to figure out how can you balance your career aspirations with your partner with your family? So ultimately but this time I was living on the east coast in Philadelphia New York, and then they got Where is my husband got a job out here, right beside La so that point I thought okay. Maybe instead of the Consulting world. I'm actually always on the road right either local or Internet are domestically and internationally maybe start to take another shift and see where has my background that is shaped me so far from my engineering undergrad for my Consulting skills. Why is she in the healthcare industry? What's next? So that's random to where I am today working in marketing at about check where I still feel like I'm able to have an impact in healthcare using the skills that have built so far was just kind of a different way than then maybe a few years ago. And I think that's okay because you have to keep evolving with the Journey of Life.

Speaker 2: Maybe let's just keep this up a little bit this to this decision to move west how many years undergrad where you got your so you're four years at undergrad you've had these great experiences internationally during undergrad and you go and you doing consulting you getting great exposure see really starting to see the elements of the word. But you really want interact with and then as it happens right Life Flight comes in and you have more things that you want to be passionate care about like your family and other things too. And so then how did you start to look at that? Look for those jobs then tell me where you you knew kind of what you wanted to do, but it is still didn't sound like you knew how to say are there jobs at X company? What does that process look a little bit like

Speaker 3: yeah. So when we first moved out here, I was fortunate to still be able to actually work for Accenture for another couple years cuz they happen to have an office in LA and working remotely filing a bit sometimes in New York or my old team was and I think you know, this is fast forward to 6 years out of undergrad is when is it? Okay, maybe settling down a bit more mean. I'm married but maybe start seeing what having a family so I think the I was fortunate Troy and Brennan that were in an area where we are next to a larger City where there are a lot of companies right coming in to find one. I want to do I knew that I had some criteria right work that will be fulfilling in healthcare space but also want to be in a role where I feel like I can see the results of what I do and the direct results and what I mean by that is when you're in Consulting you make recommendations, they go to a client or you come with the white paper. You're not actually accountable for implementing those results right or those recommendations. So, why do we need a place where I'm also responsible not just for strategy but also for execution and that's where this marketing work came up in this bout to company. What was that like

Speaker 1: for you you say you got started in this because it was something that you had experience in undergrad they really wanted to do and then you said that companies are recruiting at the University of Michigan looking for people to fill these roles and you had the engineering degree. Southwest what has that been like in the process of moving different roles saying, you know, I have an engineering degree this is what I know, I don't have no sew a marking really don't necessarily a business degree initially. What was that like for you to do you find that to be extremely helpful having an engineering degree or was it a little bit you had to prove I have the degree but here's all the experiences that make me qualified for something that doesn't have engineering the title.

Speaker 3: That's a great question bread. And so I will say to everyone is listening and engineering degree gives you so much street cred, right everyone especially true when you start working a place that does not full of Engineers let people like while you stayed engineering undergrad damn you must be smart, right? So that helps and then another and another angle to that is because I want to do something to start racial engineering has you highlighted. I also had to demonstrate skills outside of my Technical skills write my ability to communicate to collaborate to influence and negotiate to manage and I think the time and undergrad what helped him with that. It was a fact that I took on leadership roles within soon organizations that absolutely helped in undergrad. I was president of the Society of women engineers at Michigan Section 1. The largest student groups are was at that time on on the Engineering campus and as president of Suiza side of Engineers, we did a lot when it came to making an impact within the campus and also within the broader community and she highlighting some of my experiences on the challenges of the the work that I was able to come up with during my interview success Building Company. I recall absolutely helped because able to show again next thinking critically strategic problem solving skills, but also my ability to communicate and work in a team and get things done.

Speaker 2: Masters in Business, and it sounds like that was maybe another way for you to hone in on those other additional skills that maybe you needed is that correct? Or maybe we can talk a little bit about the decision process to then get that NBA

Speaker 3: Troy. Thanks for reminding me about my MBA. Yes of the last last you and so I forget that I have any so yeah, so that's a great question. I ended up deciding to do a part-time MBA while I started actually the same year that I started working at this biotech in marketing. And the reason was twofold first of the talk about being an engineer. I had a solid foundation of skills. But I also wanted to demonstrate that. I had the theoretical knowledge to understand different aspects of a company of a business how it works, especially when a new of wind to move up in management on the kind of the commercial side of the organization of The industry and do an MBA part-time all speakers for a second really helps because I knew that I wasn't doing a career shift and you'll want to stay in this in the Baltic and marketing but I also knew that I wanted to supplement my skills and what I learned in school at night, I could take to work the next day would you think is extremely valuable when you think about doing a masters if you have the capacity or ability to to study while you're working is is really helpful and today's not that I graduated last year. They investment I think in the part-time MBA is also going to be a long-term investment because I'll be able to put the pieces together of what makes it a company successful as I move forward in my career.

Speaker 2: I think your story of how and why you got your Green Bay is honestly we have people on on the sockets that are using the Master's Degree as a tool to achieve something and I think You did a great job and I think it's an illustrative example for those were listening of get your Master's if you're using it as a tool like what are you trying to do? So if you're trying to build your technical skills, that's great or there was an episode of Hank 3 Caitlin on our show. She got her master's because she wanted to make a make a job change and so she needed new technical information. But the NBA can also be as a toner previous episode. You can also just use it to build the network. I'm Kevin in the pin the last episode did that really really well. And so I think the NBA can be a lot of different things and it sounds like may I use another good example of you using it as a tool to achieve an objective and that that really being the point that I guess what I'm trying to say for those were listening. It's like they're going to get a master's degree why before you start? What are you trying to gain from that and how will that help you and if you can answer that question and it's going to be the tool to make that change perfect, but don't just get it to get it. Type of situation I loved very much the second party like the part time cuz that's something that a lot of people struggle with two. It's like well, maybe I know I know I want the two of the NBA but how can I achieve it and things like, you know the part-time MBA the weekend and be a nice is other options of come up in the NBA round 2 allow for that. Did you find that it it worked as good as you hoped? Yeah, I guess I don't really know how to ask you that but the idea of you know before you got your NBA going to go into this part-time MBA because it's going to help in these ways. Can you talk maybe a little bit about your reflection on that? Was that

Speaker 3: accurate? Yeah, so I will also emphasized that I did part time because I knew that I didn't want a career change completely. I do recommend that if folks want to go if you are saying that racial engineering roll and if you want to make the chip from and you didn't the market and you might it is it is it a leap, right? It is asleep and I think doing An MBA and if you decide to do a full-time MBA to make a sort of leap like that, it is actually much smoother but said then I feel when you're doing a full-time MBA my understanding of it is that there's a lot of heavy emphasis on the recruiting and companies come to you and then you're able to have more of a way to put yourself in different roles has companies when doing a part of it is more of a hustle of a self-driven hustle, right? So because you have to figure out where to invest your time if you're working and you're studying and you're looking for new jobs, I'm looking for new jobs is a is a job in itself almost right so that we can understand so that's all you have 2 as we've talked about was Troy you're emphasizing. Did you really clear that you're doing? Part-time MBA? It could be just supplementing what you're currently doing and thinking about more of a long-term investment vs. An immediate shift tomorrow.

Speaker 2: Yeah. I think I think that's a great example of using that as it to build a technical knowledge, but still kind of stay in your path. Whereas on the previous episode of those are listening Kevin. Used at the exact other way, he was an engineer for 12 years and then he got the NBA went full-time and then basically transition use that as the transition out of engineering into the business world. And I think I think it's excellent. I think it allows, you know, you can be that change Catalyst if you want, but it's good to be in 10 full about it and have the plan before before you start it. So that's that's great.

Speaker 1: That's the way I can you maybe explain to those of us who are not as well versed in the in the business wrong side of things what exactly someone does in marketing. I think a lot of people including myself if they don't know someone that can easily confuse marketing with advertising and I know now that just because you're in marketing that does not mean the same thing. So like let's can you lay out like what are some of the things you do in your job that are part of that marketing umbrella

Speaker 3: specifically actually Brandon, I'll speak to Marketing in this pharmacyte biotech world because I actually a bit unique in the Space so the way that from the you know, the pharmaceutical industry about her going to see works is that our goal is to educate Physicians about new or existing product so that when they prescribe medicines to patients there in Florida all the options out there and you think about how a physician who receives information right to some if they go to conferences and maybe they lie about new drugs or existing therapies there or is mapa do some research online. But one way that has been effective over the past many years is education through sales reps. So sales reps visit doctors at their offices are there clinics and whenever they have a break then they have a chance to just near detail them on what's new if there's any information any new data or what's going on with a drug or therapy and so my role in marketing for about excuse to come up with the marketing information to educate the doctors via the sales reps. And marketing is essentially communication figure out how to communicate in a simplified way to reach your target audience. And in this case, my target audience is the Physicians so looking a new information or data that's their figure out how to put it in a simplified way that will be communicated to the doctors through the Salesforce is essentially what I do on a daily basis.

Speaker 2: I think another way that I like to think about marketing is inside the word marketer is almost like a communicator information communicator and in a lot of ways, you know, you can imagine the situation that you just kind of scriber. Okay, there's a person and there's a physician in the physician has, you know know they've been practicing for however long they have the information that they have and they only have so much time to find new information but there's maybe a thing that they prescribe everyday that maybe there's a better alternative to know that communicators got to come in and say hi physician. I know you're really really busy. So here's a little bit of time here is technical data that you understand that's going to help you. Have the best thing for your patience which is really what the Physicians want to do. Right? I mean they're in the spot where they they are there trying to do the best they can if they're there is a legitimate alternative to what they're prescribing that would be better. They would like to know about it. But you have to communicate that to tell them, you know, you have to kind of meet them where they are have this with my daughter where it's like when I'm trying to communicate to her I have to meet her where she is technically and knowing it I got stuck with me and socially like what we're I think she is so sweet about me and technically developed and in some ways that you know, you're doing that I was saying the highest Technical and I was like, okay, I have to meet them where they are socially interns how busy they are the temperatures are but I also have to meet them technically in that when I presented data and then they asked technical questions back. I need to be able to communicate with them so that you can be a good communicator so that they can do the best for their patients. And I think that's just an important way to think about marketing is it you're trying to communicate information if you're going to be a good marketer or Communicator you have to be able to meet that person where they are.

Speaker 3: You got this Troye. You can definitely Market you with the space. Do you know

Speaker 2: where they are there college students go to I'm going to go to the bar. All right that

Speaker 1: obviously the number one thing in your job but really for anyone in I would say most careers but if keeping us the engineering realm and Engineering like that's super important because even though it's cool. We have to do these presentations or whatever integrated and people try to teach us things. I'm in the workplace. Like I've had to sit through so many presentations that were not tailored to the audience even though the audiences are the technical it's either too much information to live information on clear pictures in graphs. And and the reason we're doing we're sharing information tall is either is it was convinced someone that we need to do something or to prove it that we have done everything correctly or insert? So I think this is like obviously for you really important trying to trying to get correct on an accurate information on a doctor's or relate that to anyone in engineering or outside like having great communication understanding who your audience is tailoring things to it and Ed Edwards practicing that the more and more you can the more you'll get better at it. I don't know if you have found any ways that you really help you improve or get better at her techniques that you found

Speaker 3: us start and I'm glad that we're just heading there right now guys, really just starting undergrad because when you think about it outside of the class presentations, like there's you have nothing to lose when you can get yourself out there to maybe in a different student groups and if there's a way to me to organize an event or get in front of a room and talk about a topic or you can bring a guest speaker, but you introduce a guest speaker like any way to be in front of a room to help communicate or even in a stone orientation advocating for your own ideas. That is Self is a skill to home as early as possible because you guys were discussing will serve you super well, whatever career you're pursuing in your daily life that art of sharing your perspective on getting others to perhaps follow your perspective, right or even you figure out how to adjust your own views and I'm building consensus or an idea and getting people to follow. It is applicable everywhere.

Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's it. I think it continues to be of common theme of this podcast. I mean, I'm just not that mad thinking back to Justin episode 7 how he said being involved in housing reslife given skills to be successful at Caterpillar Eric and episode 5 how he did all those extra programming assignments that were part of bigger team to help him become a better programmer at YouTube like these these outside of class extracurriculars are so powerful and honing skills that you need in real real life work in the technical side is good and learning how to be a critical thinker. Those are very powerful things from an undergraduate degree. By getting yourself involved in more than just classes you learn a lot of other skills that you also really need like I mean if your engineer right now and you're sitting at a desk and you think that you don't need to communicate or Market your ideas to someone like what are you doing? When you present to your manager, you are essentially trying to convince them of something. Yeah, they're not something is going to buy something from you. But you have some hypotheses are some data that you're trying to communicate to someone and you need to do that as effectively as possible and it's if it's there for everyone those skills and that you had just think another great example in your case here. Mayhaw, I was just more specifically title that way I guess I have a follow-up the old is Arie is everyone who's kind of doing what you're doing. Do they all have bachelor's degrees in engineering or do you need to have a bachelor's degree in engineering to do what

Speaker 3: you doing? I was just I'm unique that it with my title. There's very few others that might have the engine degree. But I also have to say any of these views are my own that I feel that this is giving me an advantage to accelerate perhaps a bit more in my career versus some of that may have a degree that's not an engineering undergrad and what I mean by that is because I have the ability I really feel because of my background to be able to connect the dots to be able to put the pieces of a puzzle together in the work space and when you can do that plus you have the ability to communicate like that's just gold, you know, and when people start to see that then they see okay. This person has a lot to offer. Let's give her some more stretch roller challenging assignments. Let's see what you can do with this and the more that you can do that if the goal is to rise up the corporate ladder than its then that engineering background was truly going to hell.

Speaker 2: What time is back to your time at Accenture? May I can you tell me a little bit about what your day today life was like there, you know if someone sitting down in that chair, what are you spending like that your time on your what percentage of time are you meeting is that

Speaker 3: yes, I think what's interesting about the Consulting life is that eat project that you work on is very different but I think all of them have similar theme so one of them especially say if you're building in the early stages recur, maybe, you know between a year out to five years out from under grab a lot of it is understanding the needs of the client figure out what the problem you're trying to solve and then doing research you can say secondary research as well as primary research to solve that problem. So Especially example when I was in Columbia working on the project with the world diabetes foundation on gestational diabetes. So the secondary research component was understanding diabetes a self-written is Jennings problems understanding how what the management of care is like for diabetes. And then also understanding the Columbian Healthcare System that work there the primary research component was going out and engaging with different stakeholders were all part of this program to understand their perspective of what success looks like and what are the challenges that they face in maintenance program successful and then after that both the secondary primary research you come back and you dissed you reflect on your findings, you distill it down and to be technical mean a lot of the work is simply Microsoft Word and PowerPoint right when you're doing this thinking and analyzing and writing and then you come up with key recommendations and you present those recommendations back to your client. And that's in the form of PowerPoint. A lot of the work in Consulting is a combination of thinking and talking frankly and then reflecting writing a recommendation then presenting it back

Speaker 1: is maybe not as in-depth technically is someone who does engineering might be used to but it's a lot of compiling all this information getting answers that you need and it presented in the way that he hears a solution. Here's here's an example of something that's interesting because we often get lost in the details and a lot of things we work on and we really dive in and we we felt really come up and realize how do we put this together in and put it into something that that is useful. So I think it's good to always remember. Hey, like there's other sides of this of how a package it. I put it together how we create something that that in your case is going to useful to help a project that has a real impact in the world. And so I want to I want to follow up a little bit on that is that when you were at Accenture you were part of their their Corporate social Enterprise. I don't know if it's a division or project or what you call that. But see what you were doing project that had real real impacts in people in in other countries in the International Development space. I think there are Rhino. There are a lot of projects that students do in college that are kind of focused on going to other countries working on projects to help someone like a hospital like you did when you were when you're doing that in an undergrad but then transition gotten the professional role. I think it's easy when you're young to be like, hey, I want to go out and do projects really make a big impact. But when graduation day comes it's I also need to get a job and start paying off my student debt. You worked in one company allowed you to do that. What is what is that space look like what opportunities are there out there for people who want to do something that can have had a real meaningful impact on people's lives directly who need it.

Speaker 3: Yeah. I love this question because when I think of my career trajectory also you don't undergrad. I begin both the Summers after sophomore year after junior year. I worked and volunteered. I had a grant the second time, but you know working. Ashley and after that I realized that it's really important again to make money but also everything but long-term career to figure out what success looks like in here in the US in terms of how we work how we help companies operate weather in June companies Consulting companies because since there's so much business here, right? Obviously, we are all doing something really. Well. I think it's important to know what drives that so that you can take it to other places around the world. So that's why I decided to right after undergrad part. I'm in the car so I can financially but also working in the domestic space so that I could take those learnings internationally and that's it was about four years due to four years out of undergrad is when I went back to work internationally and now real quick when I think about me working in marketing it in the US in about a Kik I will also work in a company that is global and I think about okay for the next few years I can change to work here in You asked but then it can I position myself for a global role and take the learning about how business operates in the US and take that to the rest of the world. So why I'm saying that is because as if someone has listeners hear I want to think about a global career I would and Anna are the same time or juggling the financial aspect about okay. How do I pay off my debt excetera be patient right outside be patience and find a roll here that in this country that can expose you to a lot of different skill-set that you build but at the same time in an ideal situation, you'll also be working at a company that has a global presence considered that and then figure out if you can move to an expat Rolex that position within a few years so you can go working in a different country and figure out how to make an impact their

Speaker 1: what are some of those like other roles that you've seen when you were working on these projects you are asleep interacting with other people who did did lots of different parts of it. What are some of those roles that you've seen it. People from the United States are from American colleges have gone out and done.

Speaker 3: So I'll speak to a consulting company such as Accenture and then actually the same time my my current employer. So global companies have offices all around the world and what that means is say you have an office in New York near office in in Zurich and Switzerland, but it just means that the work that you do say in Zurich will be focused on more local projects local Consulting clients or clients across Europe. So what's interesting is that the work could be similar and Consulting but just in a different geography, I think when it comes to a Manufacturing Company write such as Amgen when you have a global presents, then you think about how you and especially say you work in the marketing side you folks and marketing and selling drugs in the US and then you can take those learnings. But what's interesting guys right about internationally is that each country has its own local market has his own way of Greenies on way of doing things on customers. So while their skills that are applicable whenever you work in a different setting you need to make sure you understand that local environment. So you can build upon your skills from the US and adjust at 2 to the country that you're not working in.

Speaker 2: I think it's good for people took care of our light a little bit about maybe what they mean International branding to hear what you talk about and I think it's that person wanting to work for like a non-governmental organization NGO. Are they trying to like be down in like like literally like the Grassroots like help individual people would approach it from a different level of can I still work for a big multinational and still help a lot of people while working abroad I think there's different ways to go about that and may I want to take away from what you said that things really important as this idea of You can still work for that big company. And I think if he if you start in your culture you though the us or whatever country you're in you start menu in you get comfortable working in the corporate world are there's a lot of multinationals that have other officers that you can go to and then continue to grow and help people there as well. I'm so maybe it's this idea of well, if you're interested in working internationally, you know starting domestic is going to help you because it helps build addition and understand my experience. There's a lot of companies that want people to go abroad if they if they are on a path of trying to move up the ladder and you know, it's it's good to get International experience. If you're part of a multinational company if you want to move up and so you can actually be a huge win win. If you if you are able to tell you no work for 5, this year's in the US and then go abroad and they work for a few years there. Like that's going to be a good thing for you if you're interested but also good for him for the company cuz a lot of companies are looking for people to do that. I ain't got the little bit different of the scale though, then if you're like trying to work for the Peace Corps are you know what you're trying? I go into a small community and help I think that's a little a little bit different of a situation. Okay, man. So now you're at the point, you know, you just finish him a congratulations, you know, you working in marketing and up at a biotech curious as to how how you see your future idid. Hoping to continue to do more technical marketing or I guess what are your options for the past four

Speaker 3: years into my career. I had some International experience. I've had some local experiences and I think for those listeners that you know, how the family are some point one have a for starting a family the fact that I have two kids under 3 right of a two year old and a four month old now what that means is not necessarily trying to slow down and anyway, right. I'm just thinking about pivoting the focus of my career because up till now I thought Okay Age 31 at this point. Let's go back and do something internationally not like I want to go work in Europe, right? My husband Airline them back, but now with two young kids and with daycare really accessible you have to make certain Life Choices. Play Sun where you're at. So with that I feel in the near-term in your work in a marking roll or maybe even a sales role in the US and then think going forward if I can become an executive internationally within the within the farmer biotech space because I do feel passion about Healthcare. I do feel that my skill-set can make a difference in health care. So now it's just a figure out the set the pace of that in my career trajectory

Speaker 2: through like this is process of how do you take your individual self and apply that to the Future something everything about recent this idea of like as an individual right? We all go from high school to college and we do these things that allows us to get to where we are and where that person but that situation changes when you get married changes when you know, you move closer to family and you're spending more time with family. It definitely is when you get a dog you are no longer you as Individual individual makes different choices than you as part of a community and that's just how life works and we all have to kind of figure out what that means. And you know, I think that's just different freeze Persimmons kind of it. Sounds like that's very much and you do what I think is good. Then what you're good at you communicate you communicate with the stakeholders in your community and you and you develop a plan and that's you know, I'd never write that your husband, but that's also you people at work and it's it's I think that's from from what I can tell with a lot of people who would do it in our happiness by the Jonas. It's just I did I'm going to communicate well and we're going to make the best decision for the community. And so I'm glad to hear that, you know, you're here coming to the place and I think it's something that a lot of people who are listening or thinking about is how do I make decisions when it's not just me and I think that's important to think through when you're making

Speaker 3: those decisions. What is the Legacy that I want to have? On this Earth You know and in the fact that I feel fortunate that it would have put in a lot into my career so far and now okay. They also want to make sure like my I have an impact on my kids growing up. So it's like always I think it's an evolution like figure out what that balance looks like in terms of where you're spending your time. It really boils down to also what your values are in terms of where you want to have that impact

Speaker 2: from for me. Just met nice to meet you don't even once you have the values you think said, it's been how you execute on those nothing that can be a real challenge just because you get so ingrained as your individual right you get them in you. If you work to where you are now, right, it's all the things that you've done in the past that have built on and give positive reinforcement to where you are now, right? Like if you worked late at work and that give you praise like you were rewarded for that into that building value it so that means for the future in your mind, right if you want to be successful, you have to keep doing what you did in the past. You have to keep working late. You have to keep doing these things subconsciously in order to be successful in the future. But when you're making decisions that are not just you you can't do that, you know, you have to become a new person and you can make decisions to be for the community moving forward and that's really hard. But I guess what I'm trying to say, is that even if you have the values you think Rock Solid in your mind executing on that is still no small task for me. It largely has to do with the reinforcements that I've had that got me to where I am today and it's like well, I've been happy and successful quote on quote under my own definitions to give me to where I am today doing this and now I have to do something completely different. How how does how am I going to be successful? I can't See that I can only tell you that would have done in the past got me to be successful. I can't tell you that changing that it could be successful. So how do you balance that is typical so but it's something that people think they're going to think it sounds like me how you're being a rockstar and think it through it and talking to it and that's that's what you got to do.

Speaker 3: Exactly. Thanks for that.

Speaker 2: Yeah that I just I want to test for those who are interested in you are doing technical marketing or technical communicating imagine that can be most anywhere. Is there a is there a key geographic regions for this type of work or can you pretty much do it anywhere?

Speaker 3: I think I mean honestly, I would say that the company you want to work for is headquartered right? Because I think roll such as marketing you really have to understand what happened at all parts of the organization when you're at headquarters, that means that there's lots of really a lot of where business decisions are made and supporting from marketing to be tied into the over. Business open turn the geography. I think it's just wherever the company that you want to be is where it's located

Speaker 2: to your undergrad days. What do you think your education didn't teach you that you wished you would have learned her what if you could talk to yourself back in undergrad what would be some of the things that you would suggest trying to learn back then that you wish you would have known

Speaker 3: if you today is getting exposed to the business side of things early on regardless of what path with an engineering you're going to pursue right or slightly outside of engineering undergrad. I feel fortunate that I was at a university where there was lots of opportunities to take classes outside of just engineering school, but see there's one thing to have the opportunity and there's another thing to actually take that opportunity, right and one thing that I would have done differently perhaps if I'd known if I had had some sort of direction or mentorship for guidance is actually with my electives taken more courses. Business and that's not to say that you know that I don't feel like I'm really good place. I think I just did my MBA excetera but having more exposure to the business side of things, even if it's a course in finance, right or even if it's a course in accounting, let's say but taking even a couple of business courses in undergrad can help you can help anyone know how your work fits into the bigger picture of a company cuz too often. I feel like we're siloed in the divisions that we working again, whether it's in a technical side weather is even in marketing and to bridge the silos important to be able to speak each other's language. So get in an undergrad if you take whether it's fine until you take an operations class, if you take something that helps you see how a company function that is successful many of us work in a corporation. So understanding how a corporation actually functions as early as possible can help you feel more connected to the bigger picture of your work. In your career, so that's what I would have done differently is gotten myself more exposure to the business side of things in my in my elective classes

Speaker 2: getting that additional business exposure. I think there's a lot of Engineers that I really hesitant and that they that hear that I don't do business that doesn't matter. I don't I don't live in so they know where they just don't have any interest in it. If you know, you don't have an interest in the business side. That's okay. Just know that you're not going to have a good insight into the big picture so you don't get frustrated when you see the CEO make this change our your manager director do this change because they're trying to think of the big picture and you know, if you want to close your eyes to the big picture, that's fine because you just want to have be technical time, but just be careful not to get frustrated by Big Picture changes because there's people trying to think about you know, the bigger group. I just I just see that you know, I get frustrated by all the managers doing this for the manager doing this, but if I put my business hat on it's like wild Trying to do this for the organization and trying to do this for the community and its you're almost unwillingness to get exposed to that that's causing your frustration. And again, I have no issue with what I think you need to understand what you're limited in understanding when when you do that, but well, I think that gets is pretty much close to an hour. May I really appreciate you coming on the show? Thanks for taking the time.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say that you don't tip to all those out there that that love engineering but also want a non-traditional engineering path. I mean know that as an engineer, you have the ability to problem-solve and to think critically and to meet for my perspective that is a foundation to be successful and literally anything you want to do and it's just that make sure that you're also tapping into the communication side of your stripes or or your personality in figure out if you want to make a sort of career shift or you're coming out of undergrad you want to do something non-traditional figure out how to combine that ability to think critically and problem-solve with your communication and collaboration ability and your gold you'll be set

Speaker 2: and I think Rumor Has in me how you're doing your own podcast as well. Can you tell us a little bit about the 906 and what you up to?

Speaker 3: Yeah, thanks for asking. So I think about the discussion. We're just having write him at our figure out our values and our life and our evolving into figure out what success looks like for us. So that's really the theme of the conversation on the podcast that I have with. My clothes are just called the 906. It's because of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan Community where where friendship was formed as really where we share the stories of extraordinary women in our own communities for defining success on their own terms because too often we think about how to get to the top of the corporate ladder and maybe that's a tradition definition of success. But what about those that are on their own Journeys, how can I share that how can we celebrate that? That's our goal with the podcast

Speaker 2: for individuals to pick up for themselves and I think mentors help with that and just listening to the experience of others is another great way to do that. So that sounds like a really fantastic thing for the community how I guess what what do we search what website do we go to?

Speaker 3: Yeah, that think Jessica's www. The 906. Com actually spelled out. So the nine o h s i x. Com.

Speaker 2: Well, that's that sounds great sand that definition for people listening to check out a special if you're interested in kind of really what we only touched it. That's the tip of the iceberg on in this idea of like setting values. And then once you've even said I'm how do you actually Implement them to achieve your own definition of success? It sounds like some great experiences are from from salad people to experience how you do that

Speaker 3: an ER doctor while being a new mom

Speaker 2: from a not so great to have you thank you so much for taking the time and I know you notes only have so much time. And so they give us what you giving this week and I was really appreciate that and we hope you have have a wonderful weekend and spend a lot of time in the family. Never go man, another great episode Down awesome to hear from me on your story. I think different than the people for which has been awesome at the great to be able to realize all the different things you can do with an engineering degree.

Speaker 1: You don't have to just like a stick to what you've learned and I think I think sometimes I can be hard people get into engineering and they realize it may be that exact area is not something they're interested in but they can apply those skills to something else and seeing seeing stories of that to be both helpful. And

Speaker 2: yeah, I agree. I think that's kind of one of the main takeaways from you from this episode of society of the bachelor's degree can teach you critical thinking and Analysis and you can apply that to a lot of other situations and that's of value to the business world than you know, anime eyes case. She's applying it to marketing and and being able to communicate technically to Physicians and that's also analyzes situations, but I think you can apply that and a bunch of ways I could say you're a mechanical engineering you don't like mechanical engineering. Well, you still no critical thinking so maybe you know, you just go get your Master's in electrical engineering and you can come to switch that way you can Use are you going to what kinds of different stuff like I think that's really the cool part about the bachelor's degree. And I think it's important thing to think about if you're going through getting a bachelor's degree in engineering now or even if you have one but you have this strong skill set of critical thinking in that can do anything

Speaker 1: fly to other areas of my life for the Reds home or something else and not like explicit. I don't sit down and go like this is a problem and I need to do this and this and this but just being like Oh, I I have a set of skills that can be used to approach a problem at least be aware of different things or whatever else neck and applied like by far anywhere in the job world. We talked a lot about communication this episode and for me that is just like it's such a huge thing. I see it every day in my job people who communicate well and and people who do not I think it's something you always got to work on May has her advice about like really working on those skills when you're an undergrad in the end. There's a lot less to lose when doing that whether that's in an extracurricular activity or in a class or in a club or something, just kind of working on the skills and practicing them and approving them. I think that's crazy important because when you when you get out into into the the Working World everything you're going to do is going to have some form of consequence to it until you get a little bit there's there's more of an impact when you get things wrong so free communication if anyone out there is is still in school still listening work on those skills. Now don't just depend on your classes to teach it to you or reports you write or something and go out there and try to get as much experience as you can before it really starts to matter

Speaker 2: how to write a paper like Sugar communications class and what are you doing? I can make a class. We learned how to write papers. I think engineers get stuck in this light. Sometimes. I don't need to learn how to write papers in the picture there. If you're thinking that way I think it's not about learning how to write papers. It's learning about how to what we talked about meet someone where they are understand how how they can receive information and it OptimEyes in the communication path so that they understand what you're trying to tell them the best as possible sometimes engineering we just need to get stuck inside you have like I need to get to the answer. I need to make sure that the answer is correct, but it doesn't stop there. The answer that needs to be communicated to stakeholders in that whole process is a skill. You need to work on the same same way. You work on this go what you're doing right now where you work on taking the inputs and getting an answer you need to work on getting an answer and then communicating it to the stakeholder. So they understand the answer and what the implications are event answer. I think it's critically important but I think some people lose sight on that or maybe just don't necessarily see the importance.

Speaker 1: Definitely stop soft skills are definitely definitely an important thing even though we don't we don't want them to be sometimes Engineers. We just want to have technical problem solving. This is what I know, you know, you're the equation whatever else but psycho semantic use the couch in the workplace

Speaker 2: in order to do that while I think you know, you need to understand yourself like you made the comment I've liked it might be uncomfortable and that to me is a reflection of self. It's like you need you need to be able to understand that doing this might be uncomfortable to me because of my personality and I'm an introvert and I don't necessarily like to do this but it's still something that needs to get done and it's it's important to self reflect on some of those things so that you don't have deficits that are causing, you know issues, especially Mance not a theoretical on this somebody forgetting. Yeah, he's good, Well, I'm in enjoy your drink a couple weeks. I'll talk to you soon.

Speaker 1: Thanks for listening this episode of engineer your career with Troy Bauman and Brennan Tamarac for more information about the show visit our website at UIC podcast.com there you can find show notes for each episode and get in touch with Troy and I if you or someone, you know are an engineer with an interesting or even not so interesting career journey, I would like to be on the show go on the website send us a short bio and we made it to invite you to come out and share your story. And finally if you want to show your support, please rate review like or subscribe to the show on your podcast player of choice.