Speaker 3: On this episode of engineer your career. We talked with Marissa. We're a lead front occupant safety performance integration engineer at General Motors while originally planning on becoming a doctor earn bachelor's and master's degrees in biomedical engineering from Wayne State University with a specialization injury biomechanics. And she was the first member of her family to earn a bachelor's degree. Marissa is an active member of the Society of women Engineers where she serves as a leadership coach and of the previous president of the Swedish write professional section in our conversation, you'll hear how taking advantage of New Opportunities is a common theme in her career journey and is allowed her to gain a wide range of experience even before she started working. Welcome Marissa TYC. Welcome everyone to another episode of engineer your career. I'm branded Tamarac and I'm joined with Troy

Speaker 2: the infamous Troy who is the best partner in podcasting? I could ever exist.

Speaker 3: He got it right folks. We gave Miss Williams second chance to give himself intro and he nailed it

Speaker 2: is here today after kind of a random LinkedIn message. She supported it and she's here and we really appreciate it Marisa hike welcome to this podcast out to a bunch of people besides Michigan Tech in our clothes networking versus a big part of that. So appreciate you you here in and take my time. So

Speaker 1: it's not going too far back go to my junior year of high school when I was really thinking about what I might want to study in college my head told my family and friends my entire life that I want. Be a pediatrician and go into the medical field and being raised as an academic overachiever and very competitive spirit. I was like, how can I stand out when applying to med school five and a half years from now? Yes. That was 16 year old me. And so I was trying to figure out how do I do something a little bit more unique than just getting undergrad in biology. So I started to explore different opportunities and potential majors and was watching an episode of 60 Minutes on CBS one night about regenerative medicine and was mesmerised

Speaker 2: original Dimension

Speaker 1: is like my parents told me to come downstairs and you have to see this and I'm like, okay fine dad and then I was glued to the TV and giving presentation to my biology and Anatomy classes the next week about how cool this new technology was totally creeped out about it hugs from the beginning and ultimately decided to pursue my undergrad at Wayne. Detroit so I live there for four years living in Midtown and studying biomedical engineering and the phenomenal think about that undergraduate program was really that it was a cohort format. So we had a less than 30 students going through the four years together and we had a Design Lab every single semester. So I had eight engineering design courses and essentially different Capstone projects throughout my Creek elem that most people don't get exposure to until their senior year in a generic. So that was a really really unique an awesome team building and just experienced building confidence building experience

Speaker 2: and

Speaker 1: you're selling point for me also with Wednesday having one of the best medical schools in the country at the time, you know, I was like, all right when we super competitive and get tons of experience, and I'm only doing engineering so I can stand out to apply to med school.

Speaker 2: So you went into engineering with the purpose of it being your pre-med degree?

Speaker 1: And checked every box I sent was about to start studying for the MCAT and had an identity crisis where I was like, all right, I just took an atom eat like a cadaver anatomy lab. I'm still afraid of needles. Maybe maybe I'm not going to be the best doctor, you know, maybe there's another way for me to contribute in this field. It doesn't involve me passing out in front of my house. So I had a long conversation with one of my mentors and really shifted my focus on instead of treating injuries focus on preventing it and how could I use biomedical engineering an injury biomechanics to design systems and ultimately Automotive is where I ended up but to really prevent injury for people. I meant to apply all of that medical anatomy and mechanics knowledge in the field

Speaker 2: or sounds great.

Speaker 1: She was one of my first professors at Wednesday and someone that that I really respected and looked up to and who was an expert in biomechanics and so through talking with her about my career interest. I was able to pursue some undergraduate research in her lab and to learn a whole bunch of computational modeling tools to study a neonatal brachial plexus palsy and recurrent laryngeal nerve injury. So I got to learn a whole bunch of finite element analysis tools and multi-dimensional body modeling. I was sent off campus and got trained in and really I was I was exposed to tools that the automotive industry was using to study car crashes, but instead I was focusing on understanding the injury mechanisms during birth. I'm so totally different application of a very cool technology. And that was my exposure to undergraduate research ultimately led to me doing my thesis on that and then giving me a lot of experience to help me to land my first job.

Speaker 3: That is awesome. I want to take a step back here cuz this is obviously very different then then the router you try or I took a lot of people get engineering into engineering take so when I go go back to high school little bit when you were saying I want to go the engineering route to look unique for for med school simulator on the line. What what were you thinking about in terms of where am I going to go to study this because I imagine that's a probably a different set of criteria. Then I'm going to go be an engineer because I want to work on, you know, an ex industry Automotive, whatever when it's I want to go to engineering for the med school.

Speaker 1: So obviously that's not at all the route that I went. But in making that decision back then I was really looking for where are some of the best medical schools in the country. Sprite has one of the largest single-campus medical schools with tons of different internationally-acclaimed institutions around it from Children's Hospital to terminal cancer and so many different institutions right there in Midtown walking distance from my campus. So I knew that there was a tight connection with the undergraduate and University faculty at leading research and that there would be lots of yeah right here right now opportunities to do clinical externship sweats. Wish I was able to pursue after my junior year where I got to Shadow some neurosurgeons in orthopedic surgeons for My Capstone project. And yeah, there were just a lot of right here ties to even if that wasn't the the medical school that I went to knowing that all of that was right down the street was phenomenal and then obviously the the design element and the cohort small group element of the curriculum is really White House. Me to feel confident stepping into the field of engineering that I previously knew almost nothing about like for example in high school. I was so laser focused on being pre-med that I took every single chemistry and Anatomy vertebrates biology AP biology everything in that realm and never took a Physics course. So I was at engineer my first day of Campus. You know what AP Calculus under my belt but never had solved even the most basic physics problem and will what a culture shock

Speaker 2: in a minute to highlight your point. Also the theme that we hadn't podcast is what can you do in your degree that has a bunch of other things that can really help enhance and what I mean, but like your undergraduate research, I can take an institution that I'll give you the degree want but do they have connections that also help enhance that degree towards what you want into your point. It doesn't matter. Maybe you aren't exactly when you're younger cuz you know, how do you know but like if I'm going to a place that has has a medical school then probably there's a good chance it might even my engineering faculty. You're probably doing research heavily related at where they have colleagues and things that they're probably interacting with to do Advanced research in this topic all that stuff that has energy in it build on the the degree program that you go into. I think even Adam in a couple episodes ago. We talked about how he went to University of Minnesota and that day Have a lot of Automotive connection and you trying to go into Automotive in that was really hard. It's kind of like a thing like that you like you want to go to a school that's going to enhance where you think you want to go and you able to do that with me and saying by Midtown for those listening in Detroit Detroit, Michigan Southeast, Michigan, like this is going to benefit me to have all of the surrounding me even just geographically so I guess maybe at this point let's talk more about what is your junior year. When did you start kind of thinking while maybe not but

Speaker 1: right after so the summer after my sophomore year was really right after I conveniently finish all the organic chemistry lab that you need and I was ready for the MCAT. I was like are we going to start studying? Are we going to be honest with ourselves and say I actually kind of really like this stuff. I'm just a little embarrassed that I didn't know that 15 years ago. Cuz what's 5 year old Chester graham cracker sticks with it. There's a few I thought I had to be one cuz I was my whole life, but once I finally got over that was like you know what I kind of love this. This is so cool. I don't know anybody else in my in my network that does this but it's fascinating and so that summer I also took a big leap and decided to study abroad there was a phenomenal opportunity to go spend six weeks in China with a global engineering program and it was cross-cultural engineering problem-solving. So it wasn't just go to China take a class at a Chinese University and travel around it was actually team-based project-based Masters course essentially and so we brought professors from our University that him and taught the class in English and we were divided up into teams of two American students and or Chinese students and all of Teams are interdisciplinary. So they purposely scattered us so that there was no more than one biomedical engineer mechanical engineer, you know chemical Aerospace, whatever it maybe we were scattered and we were so we were not only cross-cultural but also interdisciplinary and we were learning how to work together and redesign some Global transportation system Concepts. And it was a fascinating experience to really, you know, reach across the globe and go somewhere that I don't speak the language and to learn to build teams really quickly and design projects and Pitch those two corporate Executives in China after touring their companies that just really opened my eyes to some of the stuff that I loved so much about engineering and particularly about being me and my Creek elem was working cross-functionally. I have always loved that and I think biomedical engineering degree really equipped you well to do that no matter what industry You So Into You because you're learning just threw out that curriculum you're learning to speak the language of Physicians or medical experts your learn to speak the language of researchers, but then you're also learned to bring in that super technical engineering background whether you go, you know, biomedical instrumentation and you learn a lot more than anybody electrical Concepts or computer engineering or you go buy all materia. Roseanne's learn to speak Material Science and chemical engineer language or like me and so I got to learn how to communicate really really well with with mechanical engineers and to translate those Concepts in learning to the human body in order to prevent injury. And so yeah, that was a that was a phenomenal test of what it would be like in the future to work for a global company and to work on teams that had you know, different academic backgrounds and me different cultural backgrounds and me and how to get everybody to work together and build a rapport really quickly

Speaker 3: like a very unique and very awesome experience and it it seems like like what you explain here and explaining your your undergrad in general like it was very small or team focused and like project-based which is not something that you got in some larger programs that that aren't as a verse that all you know, hear some mechanical engineers who are all doing one thing or the whole class where you spend a whole semester in You know b solving problems not actually solving problems by hand tonight to solving a real problem in a project what I mean to you was that has that been of one of the more valuable aspects of your college education that you got some it sounds like it wasn't as China program but also in the ones you were doing, you know on campus

Speaker 1: that I immediately took with me and my first job, even when you know, I've started out as a finite element analysis engineer, that was my first role because of my experience and undergraduate research working with some similar software and I had to learn a whole new suite of tools. So I had a ton of experience from underground and from my research, but they were all different different suppliers different brands that you also I was basically starting from square one with a little bit of background knowledge and having all of that ability to learn how to work cross-functionally how to ask the right question. NFL teams how to find mentors and and and rally groups in really ask for what I need and be specific was all stuff that I got from working in those cross-functional teams and that helps me to wash my career with a lot of confidence even though I was learning things from the ground up that I technically had a lot of conceptual knowledge up from school but didn't have the boots on the ground practical expertise in the

Speaker 2: really the benefit of the smaller project his account of a couple two different things that I think are key in my mind one is the technical learning. I'm so sad that side where it's like, okay having a big project really help me learn technically help me learn how to learn how to use new tools helps me learn how to use the equations for a specific problem. But then the second big thing is also how to communicate and teams. How do you I mean we all have I think all I need to get at least some group project base, but if you're doing it constantly like that your ability to learn how to communicate in a team. And with other people helps grow a lot there to which is really really great cuz has a podcast before this has exemplified many many times. Can you use critical once you get into the workplace? And so why not practice that more in the undergrad setting? I think it sounds like that program did that a lot more than I think at least reminded but I think I rather guess what else to say. There was just well, that's a very interesting take away their those notes technical learning but also communication learning by doing a bunch of those projects one of the other things that you mentioned that they come to his biomedical engineering BME as a very cross-discipline degree in that, you know, you said that it's like bass attack or function you having an electrical engineering is like a base. Okay, then your civil engineering. It's okay. We're designing dresses things. I don't like it. Really? It's like learn. It's a bunch of everything in one of the things I've come to realize I wasn't as I experience more of engineering is the problems of Tomorrow are crossed our brought their multi-discipline things in mechanical engineering have been solved a lot of things even just talking to my fellow researchers. It's all multi-disciplinary my work with speaker technology is probably more electrical engineering and is mechanical during evening with mechanical engineering Ph.D. It's because the problems that are going to need to be solved in the future are a mix of all disciplines. And so there's a huge advantage to an undergraduate degree where you're learning but in Yer it's definitely the there's definitely the that you know, the Jack of all trades is a master of none verse being a technical very specific. There's there's benefits to both paths, but it's also good to be intent full about which path you trying to go on and which one excites you more and which one's going to get you to the job that you want. And I think it's great to to see biomedical engineering as that type of degree and I mean I think I just really kind of hit me like that that you know, it's not trying to be it's on for bass thing. It's trying to be a culmination of mechanical electrical materials all of these things to come together to side to solve, you know, human-related engineering problems and that that's what it's trying to be and it needs all that knowledge to do that. And I know I just got a different perspective and maybe I thought maybe just hadn't thought about it before so you go to the shine Xperience Communications. I went when you're doing that project was most of it communication challenge was that like one of the harder part of it is just communicating

Speaker 1: communication was definitely a challenge but not in the way you might expect so all of our colleagues in this class regardless of conversational English skills, and they were you know, they were conversationally fluent in basic English, but we were learning with Masters level engineering Concepts and so I had to learn how to distill some of that down to a point where you could have a more colloquial conversation about it. So that was really an excellent experience in learning how to like the art of an executive summary or had a really simplify something to get your point across without. Do you know all the jargon all the details all the math concepts that everything that can just be overloaded nitty gritty and how to explain it to someone that you know, maybe doesn't have your your background and Engineering Maiden on an engineer and maybe there's an expert in another discipline and how do you explain what you bring to the table and what your unique value is in that team and that has been phenomenally valuable in my career in it and being able to be that bridge or that link between disciplines are between two people in a meeting who work for different functions or have different backgrounds and are not saying the same thing. They don't hear each other there. Talking Tom, you know back and forth, but they're getting nowhere because nobody can make that connection in their brains don't work the same way just because of their background experience and their head knowledge and everything else. And so that study abroad experience was a great way to build some of those skills and to be able to converse across disciplines of engineering but also with non-engineers because we we were learning how to explain it at a level that people without an engineering background would still see the value. So if you're working with no marketing or pitching to other functions that aren't maybe aren't as technical in your area. How do you get that point across?

Speaker 3: This is all in a six-week time. These are something you learned that you were you in a very small time you're taking with you like the rest of your career. It wasn't like years of thinking about this

Speaker 1: because it was like you're either going to get credit for this class or you're not and we you know, I was at it was a ton of hours and a ton of effort and we had homework every night. But we also got to go away on the weekends and learn how to build teams. And yeah, I think it's something that I didn't I knew it was valuable at the time but I didn't realize just how much I would leverage the skills until a couple of years later when I was like, wow, where did this start? Where was that spark and I think it was really on that study abroad experience

Speaker 3: opportunity. If anyone listening if you have an opportunity like that it sound like versus a and take advantage of that. It could be a way bigger opportunity you think you could be Let's go go back back back to the USA here in your in your in your final years of undergrad. What it what are you thinking about? You decided you don't want to go down the medical routes and you're switching to engineering what what's going through your head?

Speaker 1: So I basically just decided to go all in and focused on doing injury biomechanics. I got to pick my electives for my Junior and senior year in that realm and was also also fortunate enough to be able to apply for an accelerated graduate enrollment program, which will let me take a few master's-level Alexis toward my undergraduate credits and ultimately help me to finish my Master's Degree a little bit faster in the future. So I got to dive even deeper take some higher-level courses that I would have otherwise not have had the privilege to take and really just dig into things like final analysis and injury biomechanics and everything else that I pursued. My Master's Degree Automotive Engineering that kind of stuff.

Speaker 2: I'm curious as to your reflection not now that you've gone through in can I did that and then maybe they'll be people is named will I qualify that sounds like a lot to add graduate-level classes to my undergrad cuz you know you meant for those looking to look at a graduate student maybe takes 9 credits full-time. They take 3 classes and you also graduate courses are a lot of work. It sounds like an ad that turn undergraduate curriculum. I guess you Reflections on the how burdensome the old was and then I guess I'll show you. You know your technical

Speaker 1: takeaways to take in a particular semester and it just in terms of like homework course load mainly and hours of work outside of class that I would need to prepare. And so when I decided that I wanted to go injury biomechanics bro. I knew that we had a master's degree really focused on that specialty and that was something that I did want to pursue now that decided I was doing engineering and my plan from then on was either to get a job immediately out of undergrad and pursue my masters part-time, which is plan a Works worked out for me this time. That's what I did but my plan B option was if I don't get a job right out of undergrad in a field that I want locally so that I can finish my degree at Wayne State then I was going to go full-time and finish my masters in a year. And so with you know where that Focus I kind of was able to build my Master's plan of work during my undergrad and decide which which courses made sense to take his undergraduate elective face and coleslaw and then maybe putting off some of the ones that would need them or heavy homework Focus since I took them one at a time throughout most of my part-time Masters evening courses while I was working full-time.

Speaker 2: What's good thing. I mean it says that it works out too cuz I mean I did some graduate programs may not even have all classes that you can take at night too so that you know, maybe you can work it out where you're doing right now.. Going to where you take your eyeglasses. What sounds like this was not even quite seen you ruin. This was like a way to talk to your advisor. They make all different things, but I'm count write your graduate degree. And that's awesome that you have already been dealt with it where they double-counting is that

Speaker 1: Because they not only make it faster to complete your master's degree in the future, but they save you a ton of money because you were paying undergraduate tuition for a graduate-level course. I know that's right a wonderful opportunity and ultimately get your feet wet and maybe more of that specialty that you think you want to pursue as a masters, but you're maybe you're not entirely sure you're going to go all in as an undergrad your last year and you know, take one or two courses in that specialty Payless tuition for it. Give it everything you've got and if you decide a year from now because you're working somewhere else that you know, that wasn't really the right route for you or maybe that master's degree isn't something that you want no harm. No foul. You didn't pay Master's tuition for it. You're not halfway done with the degree you're done with your bachelor's degree. And you had some deeper level exposure to the field

Speaker 3: about how you can kind of test out before you really you full your diet person to a Sexy really good point because I know a lot of people who say well I finished undergrad. I think I want to go to the Masters. Now. I'm going to go do this and then you might find out you know, what a year in that. You're stuck working on some project or something for some advisor that you don't want any part of and you're like, what do I do? I do. I finish it out and be miserable. Do I cut my losses and leave and that's what your money left on the table. So I got the really good option that you mentioned is if it offers it to be able to see what graduate school is like before you're leaving and still being able to use all that for your undergrad part-time while you were getting a job, which means you got a job then after undergrad so let's let's talk about what job hunting you need your kind of interesting Automotive because what you're meant or said what what was the process he went through there? Cuz I can always be a stressful and interesting time for a lot of people try to get that first job

Speaker 1: experience. I Finished polishing my resume, you know during the summer between my Junior and Senior year undergrad. That was when I did my last internship and had was kind of wrapping up on my undergraduate thesis work and you know my eye jokes at my full-time job at the time after finishing that internship that fall was to find a full-time job. Yes, of course I had course work, but I went all in on that and was started reaching out to people in my network. So I was super super involved with student organizations in the College of Engineering throughout my entire undergrad and that gave me a massive network. Not only at the University level but also within local alumni and Industry contacts that local companies and the place that I ended up finding my job was not through our school career fair, which of course I was at but was through the society women Engineers National Conference their career fair is I am not going to say this literally the best career fair for engineer graduates. You do not have to be a woman to be a member and it's a phenomenal conference with one of the biggest river in the country and so many Industries represented. And so I went to that Conference in October of my senior year and hit my self like crazy to every I had a strategy when I went in. I knew it what companies I wanted to talk to you and have you know, those two-minute conversation. So I gave them my resume told them about my experience had my elevator pitch ready and was able to get a few interviews scheduled for the next day actually to is a cup of few days long conference and they had interview boost on site which is another huge part of that type of conference. And I know now they do the same thing but virtually is a virtual interview Booth but That was an amazing opportunity. I have no idea. I'd landed interview on site at the conference. And then ultimately that led to engineering final-round interviews right after so is a pretty quick Whirlwind, we're within a couple weeks of going to that conference and talking to everybody that I had a job offer before Thanksgiving and then lock that in and so I I watch my career at General Motors back in 2016.

Speaker 2: I'm really really sorry to hear you're leveraging other things besides just the school. The school is important but your ability to leverage your other network can be critically important Give me the main thing that was for you and I think that's great. It was nothing with your inner or outer school. I keep your trade, even if you're working right now and you're trying to you know. Find a different job. Like there's all of your networks are our options time to be able to Define everything's and who knows, you know, I may just be a conversation that doesn't work. Maybe 5-10 years. Now that might come back up here at the conference. There's a lot going on. What's it like to be a biomedical engineer there? What's what's that experience like

Speaker 1: and challenging but exciting at the same time. I would say that as a biomedical engineer. You have a little bit more work to do to make a presents and make yourself known as a conference because there are companies that are a little bit close-minded sometimes about what types of disciplines their willing to hire or what specific order they are looking for within their organization and they don't let that deter you if you're passionate about working for that company or for their Vision in the products that they do as a biomedical engineer, depending on your specific Niche within the field you have a lot to offer particularly if you have that interdisciplinary experience. Hands-On design project experience undergraduate research, you know, what electives you took an undergrad that were in a more in a more specific field such as you know, electrical and computer engineering or if you have a lot of expertise and Cheerios, you can learn that two different companies that might not even think about biomedical engineering and I think the script is changing these last few years. But yeah, maybe a decade ago. It was nearly impossible to get it to really get a job without a Nana's as a b m e without a ton of connections within your network. You noticed a cold call company and say that I have this background I have this degree and I really am going to add value in this way. And I think that's just because some some HR professionals, you know, they have a list and they don't understand what your degree and they don't have time to figure it out and there's a 500 people today, but I think that's really where the art of you know, the elevator pitch end-to-end capitalizing on your unique experience. Not only your key coursework that's super relevant to their industry. But also Your extracurricular involvement Viet research leadership and seen organizations competition teams just like eco-car Warrior racing that kind of stuff. Those are all things that you can leverage at a career fair and just because they are big sign over head doesn't say that they're hiring bmi's doesn't mean that you don't have something to bring

Speaker 3: in today's world, especially a lot of place that far looking at the person not necessarily the paper yet to get in there. Sometimes depending how you're doing it but we're looking at the people and what they've done and I think that's that's a really good observation and at night and I'm not I'm not a p.m. Me so I can't specifically said about it, but I'm sure that there are lots about there will take will take that message and use it. So I guess I have a question would you so you got your your job offer from General Motors in you you are you with them. Did you also interview with any other places because of the conference or not?

Speaker 1: Really looking for besides the ability to finish my Master's Degree with in the Metro Detroit area was the opportunity to work in a rotational program. I really wanted that rotational early career leadership development experience of particularly if I was going to work at a huge Fortune 500 company. I wanted to see the big picture. I wanted to not only know, you know one specific job role, but they have exposure and to build my network across the different functions and really understand how everything works together and maybe that's because of my you know systems and integration passion that clearly brought me through BME and ultimately to Automotive but that was a huge selling point for me in starting my career there and it was a two-year rotational development program are we had a few different assignment opportunities and an exposure.

Speaker 2: There's a lot of good programs. I'd love to have you can expand on how you approached it. So and you know, if you give advice to those entering rotational programs, you know, because I sometimes think people who entered things like the goal is like technical see if the you come in town right Network Miss Beasley other really big benefits of the rotational program and I guess that being someone has kind of gone through when I get going but mine's that would you recommend going into it? I want for those who are kind of starting our hope to start them.

Speaker 1: Yeah. So first of all in terms of interviewing for rotational programs because they are generally different than a normal job posting is you still do want to have a specific vision for your career or at least where you want to start and what you bring to the table. So one of the worst things you could do is to say I have no idea what I want to do and that's why I'd love to be in me somewhere and then move me somewhere else and maybe I'll figure it out along the way that is not what I romantic as want to hear if they want to know, you know your current fashion, but also that you're open to exploring out. Opportunities and knowing that once you're in and once you're learning that first job that you're building your network and other areas learning about different functions different jobs that you didn't even know existed and that you are going to continue to to develop and explore along the way in and follow your passion as your career and experience of false.

Speaker 3: What rotations did you do that as part of this year for 2 years, you're going through different ones out. What did you were you able to see all of the company like you kind of hoped you and get all that in. What was it like

Speaker 1: in a half a master's degree essentially in biomedical engineering and I was fortunate enough to start my career in the in the safety computer aided engineering space. I knew I wanted to be in safety. Like that was my that was my calling injury biomechanics. I was like safety is where I want to be with an automotive. I love this. And so I ultimately ended up spending two years. Technically within that greater organization but I work for very different teams and my diversity of experience really went from me working on in my first year very very early-stage programs that were just, you know, coming out of Studio concept development where they're rough sketches and we're trying to figure out what are Target's and metrics and are we going to get there and then following that program all the way until production in my second rotation and so we have different groups that work on programs in different stages of the vehicle development process and you know, our traditional vehicles take for five years to develop. So we're talking about stuff that isn't even on the roof yet.

Speaker 2: Were you able to from that select? Which group you landed in after this or how to how to did you already a kind of know where you were going to be while you were going through that?

Speaker 1: Throughout with lots of career development Epson and resume refinement and interviewing everything else. That was that was conducted by the program. But then we also got to be our own best Advocate as far as deciding where we wanted to go next and what we were interested in and so the program really empowered us to do that and to look around and see what else is out there. We were not working lots of events not only with other hiring managers in other departments and other leaders within the company but also our own peers who worked in different functions and you know, maybe they came into into our team after having spent a year somewhere else in an area that we had never heard of it. So we got to learn what was your day today like in that job and you know, is that something that I think I'd enjoy and ultimately even the first cohort that I started worth of about 10 Engineers. Most of them are in completely different functions now and that is really cool to think that I have close friends and contacts in my network that working all day. Mary's of the company and you know that I can still reach out to if I have a question about what are you guys doing in this area or how does this work or I don't understand this job. But hey, we work together for a year. So, how are you? And that's a really really valuable. Take away

Speaker 3: having people do you get to head to experience things with again? I guess I think about a like you had your cohort undergrad and you work through them and Aiden projects and now you're going to have a similar thing going through going to the first two years of your career like that and it seems like you would highly valuable to you and that it led you to gain skills in different areas. And so how you met this little earlier when you talk that other project in China and how you translate that in your career, but what it what are some of these things working with people what now in in Industry going through with them that you kind of learn and taken with you. Once you exited that program have been working your job. Like was it was it more teamwork skills is more communication. Was it technical? What is what has been some of the extra? How are you there? You find yourself applying everyday

Speaker 1: is absolutely through the rotational program think one of the things that I've leveraged the most is the technical Depp's that I got in that first rotation and understanding how really in detail how how the virtual crash models work because now that I'm on their performance side and I work with hardware and there's lots of pressure to Labrador virtual models being able to speak the language of those teams that do the virtual work with a group that is so experienced in hardware. And in some cases were talking Decades of experience in their performance and validation space being able to bring them up to speed with the latest tools or to translate between what are virtual team is saying about their models or what Their capability is in different areas and what they can and can't do what's quick and what takes a week to get an answer on being able to translate that and you know be the bridge between us two functions has really really going to need to ask that to me to my current team in my current space and I've actually had the opportunity recently to lead a cross-functional design thinking project between my old organization NCAA and my safety performance organization to reimagine the way that we work together going to looking for the future. And so that was something that was nominated by my directors to go to leave that function because of my relatively parallel number of years of experience in each function

Speaker 2: to I don't like exooter ever really enjoy that environment. I think it's okay for those listening to say that you know, I don't necessarily like working in teams. Maybe you know, I'd I think it's part of your personality. That's it allows you to excel in these conditions and I think at the border now is that and then you sound like you're really leveraging it because you loved it and that's great. But you know, I need that, you know, I would however that works for you. But it's it's it's what I love about your store this Friday eating at you continue to Leverage What you love and in in some ways United just going to continue to grow that big but I don't think there's a synergistic aspect of that too. Like when you're when you're constantly giving yourself opportunity to get involved in things you enjoy and in your case cross-functional teams, and even like this the amount of Technical Institute getting into like your you can enjoy and you're going to you're going to do well I guess I mean you're going to because I don't just your it's so much easier to go to work and be excited about what you're working on then go to work and I treated her like it'll be a huge fan sounds like you're not doing that everyday. I mean, I can really tell that just by how excited you get about what you talked about. I think that's a girl just a good example for those listening, you know things about your job that you know you Really get excited about and that, you know, you was kind of like naturally flow into and how can you how can you grow that more? Can you go talk to your director and say hey I can use their way for me to do some kind of cross collaboration are you know, even if your company doesn't have a rotational program is there can you make your own neck if that's something that you're interested in? Is there a way for you to kind of Kratos opportunities? I feel like in a large way. You're you're doing it for yourself and sounds like it's working out great. And I'm just trying to elaborate that for those that are listening is listening to some extent you can create your own destiny and sounds like General Motors. It sounds like there's a fantastic job in providing those opportunities, but equally important that is you taking advantage of those you signed up for him and you really tried to grow in them. So I guess transitioning out of the rotational program I get to let's walk through that and what was that like, I'm always wondering if those I do the rotational program. What is it like going to the place where you're going to be forever or however, it feels I'm kissing you experience they doing that.

Speaker 1: List of assignments that were available in areas that were hiring and to think about where we really wanted to take her career from here and you're absolutely right in terms of everybody gets a little bit like sweaty Palms at that point where they like, oh no, this is my real job. Not that the work we were doing before by any means was like an internship level. It was definitely a professional responsibility and accountability. But to look at something and say there isn't a guaranteed you're done with this in six months and moving on to something else date. So there was a level of of In all seriousness there that I think we we all took seriously, but at that stage, I was really trying to think about what I enjoyed most about my current role but where I wanted to grow and it was a little bit less focused on a specific job title so much as it was an experience that I wanted to gain and that's something that I would really encourage a lot of people to lean into as you know to be so wrapped up necessarily in I want this to be my title or I want this job but to think about what specs of your your current role or your current education return experience that you really loves but you were talking about being in the flow or you know, when you're just in your element and you're going and you're enthusiastic you lose track of time because you are just so in the zone and how can you capitalize that on that in your next role? And so I was seeking out a variety of different functions to think about. You know, what did I want? My day-to-day life to be like and and where did I really want to gain more experience and in my case since I had two years of Virtual Piano virtual analysis experience. I really wanted Hands-On Hardware validation experience. I wanted to see the end product. I wanted to crash mythical Vehicles into barriers with million-dollar jammies and tons of instrumentation inside and know that I only had you know one or two shots to get the answer right and and you know, you can just resubmit another model and and try again tomorrow because there is that crunch time for the end of the program when we're really crash and prototype Vehicles is a huge huge undertaking and there's a ton of pre work that goes up into that in the Years leading up to the point where we have those tests properties available. And so I did interview with quite a few different functions and talk to a lot of different managers something that I did before even formal interviewing that I think is extremely valuable not for anyone who's considering, you know, a new rotation position or are you stuck in their career is to do informational interviews where you reach out to either hiring managers or mentors or even colleagues that you know what you're there at your same level they can't hire you but they work in that function that you're kind of curious about and ask them if you can sit down for a cup of coffee and learn more about their job and they're due today and what they love about what they do. That's a great question to ask to really get an understanding of what the rules are and how their team functions and what their organizational culture is. And then if you can see yourself there, so those types of conversations are less about yourself and you know, it's not an interview. Are you catching yourself as you learning everything you can about that grouper that timer that culture and that's When I did with every single hiring manager that as well as one or two members of their team before I formally interviewed with them to make sure that I felt like I knew enough about the job and I wasn't just reading a job description before going in and that gave me a lot of confidence too. And I went out to Bentley made my my final decision to to pursue safety performance as my next time.

Speaker 3: I got some really good tip about doing this informational interviews with the manager but also with someone who does that job cuz the manager doesn't do that job. They manage the people who do it so that they have some perspective of what their employees do but not necessarily on a day-to-day, you know details level. So I think that's a really good tip is for anyone out there who's thinking about moving within our company or even outside of a company to really make sure you're talking to someone who does the job that you're interested in doing? Otherwise you would you may learn about something that's not quite the exact same and when you get Are you might say you might be disappointed or you might be really excited that really great. I can you talk to us a little bit on the side here. You're talkin about validating hardware for safety. What does that exactly mean? You're you're crashing car so we can do is think about maybe those commercials where you see a car crash into a while but what does that actually mean for safety? What are you looking at? What are the parts where the metrics guess I'll get inside of that.

Speaker 1: There is so much from Federal Regulations. So like Nitsa National Highway Traffic Safety Institute address consumer metrics. So those types of things that get alot of flashy, you know, five star crash test ratings that mean a lot to Consumers and then also a lot of internal performance requirements that go above and beyond what the federal and consumer metrics are in. So we are testing to Bali every single one of those things for every vehicle program. And so that means we've got people in safety that are specialized on Pressure and you have a really fine art materials background and or mechanical engineering and they're experts on figuring out how to design like the front structure of a vehicle or the side effects of a vehicle to withstand crash forces and to be able to protect the occupant prevent any issues with like fluid leaks or fire hazards or anything else in that realm and then we've also got people like myself who have a much more occupants Focus expertise. So I really focus on tuning things like seatbelts and airbags and seats and interior restraint content to manage the forces on people within a crashing and we look at that for our smallest occupants were talking about babies in carseats all the way up through the tallest heaviest adults and then being able to manage the same seat belt or same airbag for all of those different sizes in a variety of positions. Is a variety of speeds that you could be impacting anything from a flat barrier to something at an angle to another vehicle to a pole. And so it's a lot of balancing and optimizing a variety of systems and so in safety integration, we don't own any of those systems, but we own the performance and the protection of the people within the car. So we have to work really closely with design and release Engineers are component leaders in different areas of the company who actually owned the parts of the car or those sub system in order to maximize our performance. And so we do a lot of upfront work and test planning and working with our virtual teams to conduct those virtual crash test. So that ultimately when we get to running sled or barrier test out at are Proving Grounds that it's that it's really a validation activity where We're confident in in what we know we're going to see happen and that ends up being our final data that were able to produce before selling the vehicle and doing the final sign-off to say that we trust were going to protect our customers.

Speaker 2: It sounds like a lot. I mean, I mean that translate into your your day today, I mean a lot of Excel sheet or you're trying to like plan out testing major Caesar is a lot. I mean a lot of coordination with other groups like it's hot. What is what is your typical day look like if there is a typical one

Speaker 1: has really really early development phases where there's a lot going on in design and you know, they're sketching everything out and trying to figure out Who's our Target customer for this vehicle? And what's it going to look like? And what are the new features that were bringing in in those times were really focused on safety strategy and defining what are our targets for the Federal Regulations or even our internal regulations? What what threshold do we want to meet? It's almost never you know, what's the legal limit? Its how far beyond that do we want to go? Because what do our customers care about who will be driving this vehicle? And then so not only safety strategy and defining that because that dictates what type of features we put in in the vehicle structurally and otherwise, but also being involved in a lot of compartment in a Grecian meeting. And so those are when people are sketching out and trying to figure out how different things package within a vehicle and where they can fit in which zones are appropriate and which ones are not and advocating for safety best practices. You know one of those types of meetings and say no you can't design it that way because it won't protect us for this specific locator. I need this to be there for this type of Crash because it's important to this size occupant Andrea The Advocate and the voice for the the people who will be riding or driving our vehicles in the future way up front and then later in the in the development process. Once we start to have some Hardware available will be meeting with virtual engineer's who do a lot of the CAE models and do virtual crash testing analyzing occupant injury numbers and looking at you know, how does their head interact with the airbag? And you know, how much chest compression are we seeing in this case or is that any contact above or below that the injury threshold are we needed to be and how can we re design this part 2 better mitigate. The injury is really with with crashworthiness and vehicle safety the the principle that where that were operating to is it 3 elements of a crash the super quick to explain but hopefully it'll give you a little bit more contacts in the first one. Is that the vehicle crashes into a barrier or another vehicle? So that's the vehicle crashing into a thing. Then there's the person crashing into the vehicle interior. Ideally you're wearing your seatbelt and you technically your body crashes into the seat belt and the airbag supports you and then finally there's the internal crash and that's your organs into your skeleton and all three of those things have a potential to influence what types of injuries you may or may not sustain until those are all the different parts that were working to and analytically we have very fit Alec human body models that were able to to analyze those types of injuries and really predict we're going to see but when we get that first hardware and it's a prototype or a really early stuff and we mock it up together in a vehicle environment and run it on a sled at the certain. You don't understand how how productive are models were and what we need to maybe go back into it and how can we change, you know the time that airbags deploy or the size of the van or how much the belt pays out or that kind of thing? All of those factors were tuning in tuning and tuning and then we get our final barrier vehicles and that's when we have a full prototype vehicle and we're out of Proving Grounds and we are you know hooking it up to a chain a tow hook and throwing it at a wall and signing off on her on our final validation. So it definitely changes based on you know, whether we're in the early Mass stages where we're doing a lot of virtual stuff all the way through virtual analysis crash models. And then when we were running the tests and everything, we do have front hubs to build our confidence into how we going to that Hardware testing phase because once you're there you're already building vehicle and you're this close to launching and you have no time for ear

Speaker 2: when you're doing this for multiple programs at the same time. I guess it was that for for being you may be at early stages on one program at the same day. They have another meeting right after the vert the initial planning meeting for hey, we got parts for this this platform. We're doing this not right. So you're supporting your you doing that that that Myriad of things but for multiple programs on the same time, if it so you can sell your day today may may change you cuz you know, how many programs you have literally right now and what that mix looks like it ain't give a time. So it sounds like you can be doing a lot of different things. He really isn't. A typical day,

Speaker 1: there's a ton of variety and that's one of the things that I really love about it. So there will be weeks where I'm like out of the Proving Grounds for a couple weeks dealing with a lot of Hardware setting up parts measuring Tyson collecting data and iterating and Andre running that and then there's other times or I'll spend a couple weeks and I'm just at home or maybe go into Proving Ground one day a week, but I I love the variety that something that that gives me a lot of excitement because there is those that I've been slow of of workflow and how a different stages of the program more heavily with different

Speaker 3: groups. Yeah, that's about like I told you I could ask a ton of questions on this learn more about what I'm missing in the twenty-year-old deathtrap car that I drive and what there is new today, but I'm going to try this load before I run out of time to what what you're doing out we talked about we talk about sui before and help you get a job and you're still involved in that now even though you're working and not necessarily in from the the college side of it. So you talked a little bit about what you're doing. I would study women Engineers today

Speaker 1: so valuable to me that I decided to join us professional number immediately once I graduated and I've been involved with the Detroit section of the Society of women Engineers. We've got over seven hundred members in the metro area and over the last few years. I've had several different leadership roles within our professional Society. Most recently. I was Pat I was President last Here, I just finished up my term in June. And so that was a phenomenal leadership opportunity to really engage not only with other professional members, but with the community Through Outreach initiatives that get more K through 12 students involved in excited about stem fields in their potential careers in in engineering and then also just again building my network above and beyond my my sealed and my industry are section was recently awarded the the Gold Award for professional section and also best practice for outreach. So that was a really exciting news that we just heard two weeks ago and I'm beyond the professional section. I've recently gotten involved with the society level as a leadership coach. I just finished my training a few months ago there and now I'm able to support 10 collegiate and professional sections. Nationwide are really a clipping their leadership teams with Tools and resources and tips and tricks on how to run and manage their sections in there different Geographic areas included environments and unprofessional situation to rolly leverage. All of the resources of the society has available to them and help them grow as nonprofit leaders.

Speaker 2: Sounds like I mean, yeah, you you're getting your stuff getting a lot out and you're giving a lot out to you. I think people listen to some at why I don't have time or I don't know. How did you remind working that way that maybe others benefit?

Speaker 1: Yeah. So I definitely understand that. I'm argument and some of my philosophies around that are really that you can balance things if you have the long-term view in mind and if you look at the big picture and that yes, it's very important to recognize anything we say yes to is an automatic no to anything else we could be doing at that time. So you say yes to going to Conference you could be home going to brunch with your friends or not having a game night, but really empowering yourself to make proactive and conscious choices looking at the big picture long-term who you are now who you want to be and then what's going to help you build skills to get there? Cuz I think it's really important to have a network outside of just the students in your class are within your major and also outside of the immediate team that you work with right now in your career and that there are so many skills. You can build by stepping out of your comfort zone and being involved in nonprofits and to that to the point about giving back. That's something I definitely hear a lot of people say like, oh, yeah, you know when I'm older retired, I want to be a philanthropist or at this later point in my career, you know, then I'll be a mentor and I will challenge you that you have experienced that is valuable already that can help other people coming up behind you. Even if they're only a year behind you in their degree program. You have a lot of advice and experience that can be extremely valuable to other people and so really pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone is the only way that you're going to grow and leveraging somebody's nonprofit organizations are ways that you can give back and help you to find other mentors and sponsors or advisers that will help you in your career, but also on your personal life and can also happy to discover some of your passions that you might not have sound just by sticking You know strictly within your professional engineering niche.

Speaker 2: Amazing. That's fantastic. Yeah, I thought I mean I think it's so easy to not think about the big picture. I don't like sitting out. All right, so no one but you know, what does exercising doing that I mean, it's how you being 10 full. Where you going? You know, if you for those are listening you're already starting to do that by listen to this podcast you thinking I'm okay. What what do I got to be thinking about in the future to become and get to the position? I want to be and so can continuing to do that. I have just one last question that you know, I really just want to ask him if your story is how the heck you figure out what you should be doing at any given time and I don't know how to best raise this question with examples that come to mind how you knew you wanted to go into Biomat how you pick that how you do how you knew that you should be doing informational interviews and that would be helpful. I just there so many examples in your story of your you're doing these things that are really helpful and maybe it's just about you counseling thing what that big picture but I'm here. I don't even know how you do it. But how how are you figuring out what you should be doing at any given moment. I like to to be moving yourself for it.

Speaker 1: It's definitely rambly and hopefully my answer will follow the same trajectory, but also add a lot of value. I just personally and own your whole story. Even the person you might not want to tell people like it's embarrassing that I told everybody. I wanted to be a pediatrician for 15 years and then had to go back and be like PS mom and dad. I changed my mind. I'm going to be an engineer. We love you. But yeah, so only your whole story and you don't know your entire path. I got you to where you are today, but also stay curious and Open to learning from everybody who crosses your path not just your professors in class, but also, you know, your other students people who are around you events that you go to if you stay open and curious learning from lots of people you'll be able to build a lot of skills that you might not otherwise. I have had an opportunity to do, you know, if you're like, I'm only going to learn from these few people are from these few authors. Then you're really narrowing your vision and not giving yourself that opportunity to grow. But also, I think it's important to cultivate adaptability when things don't go according to plan cuz it is likely that you'll have it and that can be a beautiful thing. I pivoted my career paths without changing my major because I was able to leverage a lot of the skills that I was building and to advocate for myself and then embracing a breadth of Interest as new opportunities arise that might not have been on your radar when you started pursuing your degree. Whether that is an opportunity to explore the fringes of your comfort zone to make sure you a little bit maybe this will help but also it's really scary to study abroad in a country where the language or to apply for undergraduate research when I have absolutely zero lab experience or zero computational modeling experience or it's terrifying to run for a leadership position organization. If you've never had a leadership role before or if you don't think of yourself as earlier, but spoiler alert you are and you can be other things like applying for a words are scholarships. That can be scary to lean into that discomfort and just go for it because what's the worst that can happen? Honestly, you don't get it and you try again or you learn something through the experience of justifying same thing goes for entering into design competitions or you know, trying to go for a patent on an invention that you're working on are presenting at a conference or even interviewing for an internship or Co-op or asking someone to be your Mentor all of those things kind of really bring me back to this. See that that I've tried to fully Embrace in my life and that some a quote by Suze casing that says doubt kills more dreams than failure ever will. Okay to fail. First of all, you will you will succeed more times and you fail a lot of times when you when you put everything you've got into something. And then also I I guess I want to encourage everybody to continue to pay it forward along the way. I also believe that we Rise by lifting others and that it's never too late to start giving back and sharing the lessons. You learned along your journey.

Speaker 3: That is awesome. Great advice. We normally ask people any any last advice but I think I think that was it and some extra that you that you gave to everyone listening and and to me personally, so thank you. This is this is been a great a great conversation hearing your story more. So like you have done some amazing things. I'm sure going to go on and do even more I would not be surprised to hear about you high up in in GM. Whoever you choose to be someday. So yeah. Thanks. Thanks for coming on the show. It's been an awesome our and our little later talking to you.

Speaker 1: That your listeners are able to take a little nugget of advice that just sticks with them and and challenges under think a little bit differently and try something new.

Speaker 3: That was great conversation with Marissa. I feel like I learned a lot and she's had a lot of great experience and her ending question. They are really I think I hit the nail on the head of what we've been here throughout the whole conversation of of of what she's done and how she thought about approaching her career in the guy was really awesome. Yeah. She's got to figure it

Speaker 2: out in terms of what exactly she wants to do. But like how she's going to approach life to get to where she wants to be. You know what I mean? Like she's just she's got that it's figured out. I think it's fantastic. I don't know if you know what I mean cuz it's another goes like I want I want this job and it's like her is like I want to have this philosophy that's going to leave me two positions. I want to be in like a great turkey take away on specifically that I really really loved is the informational interview. I mean, I think that's okay. Do the informational interviews like that's an interesting bonus of the rotational program that I hadn't thought about before his you're in the company. So you have options, you know, if you're not in the company write a generic job search little trickier, but you know, if you're doing it within a company definitely an informational interview great option.

Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. It's it's one of those ways or if you want to learn about a specific job and not to see the job posting. That's that's why I do it talk to someone who does that job or or their manager is a close second. I think we can talk about it. A lot of projects He did being in a team in undergrad doing this program in China and it kind of the rotational program that she was into it's all about getting different experiences and working with a group of people to get it done. And I think it's really important for people when they're in for students when they're in college or when they're in early in their career if there's an opportunity to work on a team on something else you might want Like that because if you're just give his head down in the books all day or you're just head down at your computer at work and not thinking about what's going on around you and getting more experience with people you're missing opportunities that the people who are doing those experiences are the ones who are learning more if we're getting noticed two are just going to kind of be better at what they're doing in general because it's not all about you with a single person. It's about everything the team you're working with the company everything and we're having this experience working with people super important. You can do that for the rest of your career most likely unless you do something on your own it. So it's important to get as much as I experienced that you can now because it's the sooner you have it the eat the sooner you can use it in and just be better at I think about your career General. All right, sounds good. Thanks for listening to this episode of engineer your career with Troy Bauman and Brennan tymrak for more information about the show visit our website at UIC podcast. Com. So you can find show notes for each episode and get in touch with Troy and I if you or someone, you know are an engineer with an interesting or even not so interesting career journey, I would like to be on the show go on the website send us a short bio and we may just invite you to come and share your story. And finally if you want to show your support, please rate review like or subscribe to the show on your podcast player of choice. So you can find show notes for each episode and get in touch with Troy and I if you or someone, you know are an engineer with an interesting or even not so interesting career journey, I would like to be on the show go on the website send us a short bio and we may just invite you to come and share your story. And finally if you want to show your support, please rate review like or subscribe to the show on your podcast player of choice.